Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To try to wrestle this thread back to the original purpose, I will open it up a bit. Why should someone used to the open spaces, majestic vistas, poor schools, and inflated real estate of the West want to head east to Pittsburgh? I don't care if you have lived out west, just your thoughtful take on the trade offs. Now, we all know Pittsburgh does not have the clubbin' of NYC, the tall mts. of Denver or Seattle, the flawless climate of San Diego, so a thoughtful take on the pros and cons is what I'm seeking.
Pittsburgh itself has a real sense of community and diversity. Lawrenceville with it's Polish roots, Bloomfield with it's Italian roots and Squirrel Hill with it's Jewish roots are just a small example. The Hill District has a rich Black history where many great musicians have hailed from.
You can go to The Strip District(not XXX stuff) and chose from just about any ethnic foods you want. You can walk to Point State Park, site of Fort Pitt right along the Allegheny River and see where Lewis & Clark as well as George Washington walked and made plans for their next endeavor.
The world class museums in Oakland, were built by Andrew Carnegie and are a sight to behold. That hold true for the library "system" Carnegie built in and around the Pittsburgh area.
The architecture, the woods, the lay-of-the-land where downtown Pittsburgh sits add up to a beautiful setting. The many creeks and hiking trails a stone's throw from Pittsburgh and the farm lands are a short drive away in any direction. The Fall will rival any New England state and outddor activities abound. Rent a kayak and cruise to the confluence of the Three Rivers. Fish the rivers and catch small mouth bass, northern pike, muskies, walleye, etc...... There are business men working in downtown who will take their rods on their lunch break, walk to The Point and catch bass in The Allegheny River!
Pittsburgh itself has a real sense of community and diversity. Lawrenceville with it's Polish roots, Bloomfield with it's Italian roots and Squirrel Hill with it's Jewish roots are just a small example. The Hill District has a rich Black history where many great musicians have hailed from.
You can go to The Strip District(not XXX stuff) and chose from just about any ethnic foods you want. You can walk to Point State Park, site of Fort Pitt right along the Allegheny River and see where Lewis & Clark as well as George Washington walked and made plans for their next endeavor.
The world class museums in Oakland, were built by Andrew Carnegie and are a sight to behold. That hold true for the library "system" Carnegie built in and around the Pittsburgh area.
The architecture, the woods, the lay-of-the-land where downtown Pittsburgh sits add up to a beautiful setting. The many creeks and hiking trails a stone's throw from Pittsburgh and the farm lands are a short drive away in any direction. The Fall will rival any New England state and outddor activities abound. Rent a kayak and cruise to the confluence of the Three Rivers. Fish the rivers and catch small mouth bass, northern pike, muskies, walleye, etc...... There are business men working in downtown who will take their rods on their lunch break, walk to The Point and catch bass in The Allegheny River!
I'll have more at a later date, have to roll.
As much as it sounds here like I hate the west, I did get addicted to certain aspects, most of all the hills. Pittsburgh was the only sizable city in the east that I could find with houses dotting the hillsides like they do so much out there.
Outstanding post Heit!
I would rep. you, but I have tapped our my kudos to all the regulars here! Very informative and persuasive.
CreepsInc,
Same to you.
Hey, I don't mind you bagging the West, if that was your experience. I share it and I live here! One of my best work buddies, a very funny woman from San Jose, CA. considers everywhere east of the West Coast to be "Iceberg Lettuceland" or "flyover country." She is actually very cool otherwise, but I would think she is like many here, with an inflated, uninformed, and dogmatic sense of our cultural and overall supremacy. Yes, this $400k condo next to a crackhouse in Richmond is much better than living in "[insert any state except WA, OR, CO, AZ, or NM here]." Trust me, I am well aware of our shortcomings, and I do not take offense. Though I will argue if you are too off-base, or maybe just for fun...
I agree that the West wins hands down for topography, at least in the big picture. I suspect it would be hard to move from Seattle, say, to Des Moines, if only because of the difference in topography. The town where I live (Ashland, OR) is also surrounded by high mountains, so it is a real concerns of mine. That said, I have experienced all types of nature from deserts to boreal forests to lakelands and big river country, and I can always find interesting things to enjoy. I am, however, glad that the Pittsburgh area has plenty of hills, ravines, woods, rivers, and even some real mountains nearby.
I would agree that in terms of its dynamic topographic setting and intimate connection with the wilderness Pittsburgh is more like some Western cities than most of the cities either on the East Coast or in the Great Lakes area (in fact my brother and now sister live in Portland, OR, and we have commented about the similarities in the past, all in distinction from the Detroit area where we grew up). But then Pittsburgh combines that dynamic-topographic/wilderness setting with an older history, architectural mix, cultural institutions, dense urban core, and so on, and the only city in the west that really feels like that to me is San Francisco.
So if I was marketing Pittsburgh to Westerners, I guess I would claim it combines some of the urban-historical feel of San Francisco with the setting of a place like Portland but with housing prices like . . . well, like nowhere comparable in the West unless you count Texas.
I would agree that in terms of its dynamic topographic setting and intimate connection with the wilderness Pittsburgh is more like some Western cities than most of the cities either on the East Coast or in the Great Lakes area (in fact my brother and now sister live in Portland, OR, and we have commented about the similarities in the past, all in distinction from the Detroit area where we grew up). But then Pittsburgh combines that dynamic-topographic/wilderness setting with an older history, architectural mix, cultural institutions, dense urban core, and so on, and the only city in the west that really feels like that to me is San Francisco.
So if I was marketing Pittsburgh to Westerners, I guess I would claim it combines some of the urban-historical feel of San Francisco with the setting of a place like Portland but with housing prices like . . . well, like nowhere comparable in the West unless you count Texas.
One of the first phrases I heard that made me interested in Pittsburgh:
One of the first phrases I heard that made me interested in Pittsburgh:
"Pittsburgh: The Poor Man's San Francisco"
Great post BrianTH and Tiger Beer, can't rep. you anymore, but really appreciate them.
Hmmm... that seems a stretch. More than pocket change separate the two cities. Personally, I don't care that much for San Francisco. I enjoy the scenery, and the architectural character, but it has been so overpromoted and is such a mecca for the pretentious, more arty-than-thou, and pseudointellectuals. Not to say, that there aren't plenty of spectacularly talented people there, but...In short, I have little stomach for it. At this point, there are more dogs than children in SF, which says a lot. Don't get me wrong, I love visiting San Francisco, I just have no desire to live there and have never considered it a viable option. All this said, the comparison does give one pause to think what SF might have been like long before it became the overhyped astronomically-priced, new age, flower power,self-adoring freak show that it is.
The Portland comparison is, I think, much more apt to me, at least at this point in time. Two mid-sized cities of great beauty and interest. The main contrast, in my mind, is that Portland has been a huge magnet for immigrants for the last two decades, whereas Pittsburgh has not been. I tend to think of Pittsburgh and Portland as peers, but perhaps a hundred years ago the Pittsburgh and San Francisco comparison was apt.
Great post BrianTH and Tiger Beer, can't rep. you anymore, but really appreciate them.
Hmmm... that seems a stretch. More than pocket change separate the two cities. Personally, I don't care that much for San Francisco. I enjoy the scenery, and the architectural character, but it has been so overpromoted and is such a mecca for the pretentious, more arty-than-thou, and pseudointellectuals. Not to say, that there aren't plenty of spectacularly talented people there, but...In short, I have little stomach for it. At this point, there are more dogs than children in SF, which says a lot. Don't get me wrong, I love visiting San Francisco, I just have no desire to live there and have never considered it a viable option. All this said, the comparison does give one pause to think what SF might have been like long before it became the overhyped astronomically-priced, new age, flower power,self-adoring freak show that it is.
The Portland comparison is, I think, much more apt to me, at least at this point in time. Two mid-sized cities of great beauty and interest. The main contrast, in my mind, is that Portland has been a huge magnet for immigrants for the last two decades, whereas Pittsburgh has not been. I tend to think of Pittsburgh and Portland as peers, but perhaps a hundred years ago the Pittsburgh and San Francisco comparison was apt.
I think the San Francisco comparison is mostly based on hills and Victorians.
I think the San Francisco comparison is mostly based on hills and Victorians.
That's how I've always taken that comparison as well. Purely visual - which is great!
---
The other stuff...when I was in SF...the high Asian population is what I liked, but their presense/impact didn't seem that high. Mostly when I remember SF, I think of how present the gay culture and the yuppie culture and the hippy culture were. If you weren't one of those three, there really didn't seem to be a spot for you.
Plus, I felt like everything that WAS good about SF (back in the days that things were affordable and it had a more 'cool' aspect), seemed to move north to greener and wetter pastures - WA/OR.
Tying this back to Pittsburgh, yeah, 'culture-wise', I don't think SF and Pittsburgh have much of anything in common, which is fine with me. I think of myself as left-leaning, and prefer left-thinking to right-thinking, but SF was at times too much for me. Particularly how much they pandered to homeless - to the extent that the downtown area was a place you'd get asked a dozen times for a $1 by different people just by walking around there. Once I went into Wendys for lunch, and I had FOUR different people who came into the restaurant to ask me for money. That is a seriously out of control problem when fast-food restaurants just completely give up on stopping the homeless from panhandling in their establishments. I can understand 1 who gets in there, but 4 different ones within a 15-minute lunch? I am sympathetic to homeless, but I think city government has to establish some boundaries that you can't harrass/panhandle/solicit people.
Yeah, the comparison to San Francisco was motivated by the topography, farther-back history, and built environment, not contemporary culture and trends. I should note I have a somewhat odd sense of San Francisco because my mom grew up there, back when it was more a blue-collar town (my grandfather never went to college and the most white-collar job he ever had was a sales job at Sears).
Yeah, the comparison to San Francisco was motivated by the topography, farther-back history, and built environment, not contemporary culture and trends. I should note I have a somewhat odd sense of San Francisco because my mom grew up there, back when it was more a blue-collar town (my grandfather never went to college and the most white-collar job he ever had was a sales job at Sears).
Not to flog the dog on San Francisco, but I think that your grandfather's experience was no doubt genuine. I do gather that San Francisco was the westernmost northern manufacturing city after Minneapolis. Its left-bent came from the unions workers in many industries. I think the major changes occurred from the 1950 onward, particularly after the westward exodus of the hippies around the Vietnam War era. I think even many old San Franciscans would be surprised by how far things went. Since I was born in the 1960s, I tend to see new age city rather than the blue-collar roots, which is not to say they aren't real. Also, it would be silly to deny that they are many fantastic people there as everywhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
