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I'm sure that we will see many more threads similar to this one over the coming months and years owing to the fact that regardless of the nature of any future disasters or mishaps there will always be the perfect Bush screw up waiting in the wings for comparison.
I defy any person, liberal, conservative, or moderate, to provide good rationale as to why this is not "Obama's Katrina."
I'm looking for good, reasoned, rationale. Do you have any?
The Bush administration had lead time- they knew Katrina was coming and that it was only going to last a finite amount of time. FEMA et al is (supposedly) equipped to handle such things. So there were resources with (supposed)expertise within the government to take care of a predictable, finite situation. There was no private enterprise involved at the root of it to deal with, or to have to depend upon for expertise.
Compleeeetly different story with a sudden oil gusher of unknown magnitude and unknown time line, which neither FEMA nor any other government agency has the expertise to stop, and so must depend on a private company which had no plan in place for such an occurrence.
As a fellow poster elsewhere put it more succinctly:
Quote:
During Katrina people were critical of Bush because people were calling for fed help in evacuating even before Katrina hit land, and he did nothing. There really is no comparison.
One was a finite natural disaster with a window of warning time for action to be taken and government systems in place to deal with it. The other is a man made disaster with no warning at all and involving big business with no systems in place to deal with it.
The Bush administration had lead time- they knew Katrina was coming and that it was only going to last a finite amount of time. FEMA et al is (supposedly) equipped to handle such things. So there were resources with (supposed)expertise within the government to take care of a predictable, finite situation. There was no private enterprise involved at the root of it to deal with, or to have to depend upon for expertise.
Compleeeetly different story with a sudden oil gusher of unknown magnitude and unknown time line, which neither FEMA nor any other government agency has the expertise to stop, and so must depend on a private company which had no plan in place for such an occurrence.
As a fellow poster elsewhere put it more succinctly:
One was a finite natural disaster with a window of warning time for action to be taken and government systems in place to deal with it. The other is a man made disaster with no warning at all and involving big business with no systems in place to deal with it.
Thanks for your input, but everything you mentioned here has been solidly put to rest. I'll kindly refer you to the Sanrene's thread with the Rolling Stone article. You'll see just how misguided your premise is once you find out that Barack Obama's and his Administration are just as complicit in this catastrophe as GWB and his Administration.
What's Obama supposed to do? Literally what on earth can be done now after the fact? Some of the top scientists on earth can't figure it out. Why is the president, whom is a lawyer, held to a higher standard?
If anything this is just rightwingers hoping this is Obama's Katrina.
The people who seem to have not suffered any bit from this are blaming Obama. One person who actually has takes the other perspective.
Obama ( and you libs) is the one who thinks that he can touch the Earth and all will be well. So we are waiting for him to do just that.
Obama's Katrina is something that the Libs are making a big deal. Nature killed people in Katrina, ok, not Bush. They knew it was coming, they stayed anyways. Not Bush's fault. Did Obama blow the rig up himself? No. No one is saying otherwise. Do we rightwingers want this to be a disaster? No way! I have family living in the gulf. Obama turned this disaster into a "it's all about me" ordeal.
We rightwingers want the SOB to lead. Do something other than talk tough and party with celebs. But since he is "busy" doing other things, then this will turn out to be very, very bad for the anointed one, not to mention the livleyhoods of many, many people. These people are losing their way of lives, while Nero over there just cusses on interviews!
As a fellow poster elsewhere put it more succinctly:
One was a finite natural disaster with a window of warning time for action to be taken and government systems in place to deal with it. The other is a man made disaster with no warning at all and involving big business with no systems in place to deal with it.
This BP disaster will become our oil industry’s Three Mile Island. Whether it politically harms Obama is irrelevant to me. The consequence of this oil gush (it's not a spill) will ultimately go back to where it belongs:
-While the Right furiously tries to pin the Gulf Oil Spill on President Obama, the facts tell a different story. This is the story of rampant deregulation in a never-ending ode to Profit as King, as propagated by the Bush/Cheney administration across all sectors of our economy, which didn’t end with Wall Street or mortgage lending or Enron. Indeed, the deregulation scandals extend now to off-shore drilling in the form of the missing Valve, a remote shut-off device called an acoustic switch. Dick Cheney, former CEO of Halliburton (an oil-services company), may have had his hand in the Department of Interior’s decision not to mandate the valve for off-shore oil rigs. -
* Permanent permit exemptions granted to all oil and gas construction activities for roads, drill pads, pipeline corridors, refineries and compressor stations required under the Clean Water Act.
* Exempted oil companies from paying royalties on oil produced from deep water wells.
* Created a special exception to the Safe Drinking Water Act for the "hydraulic fracturing process". As CAP notes, this process was invented by Halliburton.
* Mandated a federally-funded study to identify ways that legislation, regulations and local zoning laws impeded development of existing leases and unexplored oil reserves.
* Limited states' voice with regard to projects affecting their coastlines. This also included limiting court action with respect to offshore oil development.
* Reinstated lapsed leases due to nonpayment of royalties and rents.
* Transferred mineral rights of national seashores to private ownership or Texas state ownership in order to allow oil companies to drill under them.
On August 8, 2005, George W. Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law.
this will turn out to be very, very bad for the anointed one, not to mention the livleyhoods of many, many people. These people are losing their way of lives, while Nero over there just cusses on interviews!
Why do you even care how this turns out for Obama?
You should be more concerned and interested in who
is responsible for the oil gush in the first place.
Who do you think that is?
This BP disaster will become our oil industry’s Three Mile Island. Whether it politically harms Obama is irrelevant to me. The consequence of this oil gush (it's not a spill) will ultimately go back to where it belongs:
-While the Right furiously tries to pin the Gulf Oil Spill on President Obama, the facts tell a different story. This is the story of rampant deregulation in a never-ending ode to Profit as King, as propagated by the Bush/Cheney administration across all sectors of our economy, which didn’t end with Wall Street or mortgage lending or Enron. Indeed, the deregulation scandals extend now to off-shore drilling in the form of the missing Valve, a remote shut-off device called an acoustic switch. Dick Cheney, former CEO of Halliburton (an oil-services company), may have had his hand in the Department of Interior’s decision not to mandate the valve for off-shore oil rigs. -
* Permanent permit exemptions granted to all oil and gas construction activities for roads, drill pads, pipeline corridors, refineries and compressor stations required under the Clean Water Act.
* Exempted oil companies from paying royalties on oil produced from deep water wells.
* Created a special exception to the Safe Drinking Water Act for the "hydraulic fracturing process". As CAP notes, this process was invented by Halliburton.
* Mandated a federally-funded study to identify ways that legislation, regulations and local zoning laws impeded development of existing leases and unexplored oil reserves.
* Limited states' voice with regard to projects affecting their coastlines. This also included limiting court action with respect to offshore oil development.
* Reinstated lapsed leases due to nonpayment of royalties and rents.
* Transferred mineral rights of national seashores to private ownership or Texas state ownership in order to allow oil companies to drill under them.
On August 8, 2005, George W. Bush signed the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law.
You need to read Rolling Stones article that I linked to above. Then, and only then, will you be able to come out of the Blame Bush trance your in. By keeping up this argument, you're only solidifying defeat for the President as he continues to point fingers, even as many sources refer directly back to his Administration's complicity.
Obama/Salazar/MMS also dropped the ball. Face the facts. You'll feel better about yourself.
Obama/Salazar/MMS also dropped the ball. Face the facts. You'll feel better about yourself.
I've read the article. All I see is Obama/Salazar/MMS stopping some of the Bush era tactics while leaving most in place.
Is Obama/Salazar/MMS to blame for some of this, sure, but most of the blame goes on bush.
What you are trying to do to Obama the left did to Bush after 9/11. Blame it all on Bush, instead of looking at the previous administration who deserve most of the blame.
I've read the article. All I see is Obama/Salazar/MMS stopping some of the Bush era tactics while leaving most in place.
Is Obama/Salazar/MMS to blame for some of this, sure, but most of the blame goes on bush.
What you are trying to do to Obama the left did to Bush after 9/11. Blame it all on Bush, instead of looking at the previous administration who deserve most of the blame.
Mikey, I have not attempted to absolve the Bush Admnistration on this issue. You won't find one single utterance from me in that direction. I'm simply pointing out that those on the left who think that King Obama has no complicity in this spill need to be schooled on a few things.
You need to read Rolling Stones article that I linked to above. Then, and only then, will you be able to come out of the Blame Bush trance your in. By keeping up this argument, you're only solidifying defeat for the President as he continues to point fingers, even as many sources refer directly back to his Administration's complicity.
Obama/Salazar/MMS also dropped the ball. Face the facts. You'll feel better about yourself.
I am in no trance, are you?
I am SO NOT interested in whether Obama gets re-elected And yes, I find Obama's responses trite. The WH response will be a reason not to vote for Obama again, (if that's who you voted for) but that is not where my concern is.
What I am interested in, is who is/was responsible for the
oil gush in the first place and the lack of safety measures in place as a result of deregulation under the Energy Bill of 2005.
Where is the mole anyways. Haven't heard a peep out of Cheney. Only that BP is now using Cheney's former press secretary. Oh, what a tangled web we weave
I have read the Rolling Stones article:
- Even worse, the "moratorium" on drilling announced by the president does little to prevent future disasters. The ban halts exploratory drilling at only 33 deepwater operations, shutting down less than one percent of the total wells in the Gulf. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, the Cabinet-level official appointed by Obama to rein in the oil industry, boasts that "the moratorium is not a moratorium that will affect production" – which continues at 5,106 wells in the Gulf, including 591 in deep water.
- Most troubling of all, the government has allowed BP to continue deep-sea production at its Atlantis rig – one of the world's largest oil platforms. Capable of drawing 200,000 barrels a day from the seafloor, Atlantis is located only 150 miles off the coast of Louisiana, in waters nearly 2,000 feet deeper than BP drilled at Deepwater Horizon. According to congressional documents, the platform lacks required engineering certification for as much as 90 percent of its subsea components – a flaw that internal BP documents reveal could lead to "catastrophic" errors. In a May 19th letter to Salazar, 26 congressmen called for the rig to be shut down immediately. "We are very concerned," they wrote, "that the tragedy at Deepwater Horizon could foreshadow an accident at BP Atlantis." -
As said, this WILL BE the oil industry's Three Mile Island, which resulted in no new nuclear reactors in over 30 years.
We are in the clean up, shut the gusher down stage. Later, when there are hearings, and there will be many; you will see the facts. I'm not sure you will feel better about yourself. I know I won't, considering we allowed people of power to get away with this, in the first place
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And yes, I find Obama's responses trite. The WH response will be a reason not to vote for Obama again, (if that's who you voted for) but that is not where my concern is.
