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Old 07-31-2010, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
004.032YUSUFALI: And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: And covet not the thing in which Allah hath made some of you excel others. Unto men a fortune from that which they have earned, and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned. (Envy not one another) but ask Allah of His bounty. Lo! Allah is ever Knower of all things.
SHAKIR: And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.

002.222YUSUFALI: They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say: They are a hurt and a pollution: So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.
PICKTHAL: They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.
SHAKIR: And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.

And this is just some of the sexism in the Koran. Shall we move onto other prejudices as well?
you can find similar passages in the bible as well, passages that were written BEFORE the koran. it is not a prejudice against women, just recognition that women have certain cycles they go through, and the admonishment to not have sex during those menstrual cycles. in fact read proverbs in the bible, and you will find many references about certain types of women to stay away from.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Hades
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Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
We agree on many things, but I do not agree with this at all. Sorry.
No prob Haaziq. I call out my own ignorance when its clear and I am ignorant on this one.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Hades
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you can find similar passages in the bible as well, passages that were written BEFORE the koran. it is not a prejudice against women, just recognition that women have certain cycles they go through, and the admonishment to not have sex during those menstrual cycles. in fact read proverbs in the bible, and you will find many references about certain types of women to stay away from.
hhmm, I have a certain, very dirty theory that men are actually very drawn to women who are menstruating but I'll spare the readers this. Although other women I know seem to concur. It's strangely similar to the obvious phenomenon of men being attracted to ovulating women.

Maybe the religious book writers recognized this and feared it on some primal weird level so had to write rules about it.

Diverging...sorry
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
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Originally Posted by NomadScribe View Post
This is really a direct quote from the original Koran? The Koran actually discusses menstruation??????
Yes, it does. You should seek out the short film Submission. It was directed by Theo Van Gogh and written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (she actually was raised a Muslim in the Middle East). Van Gogh was killed for making the film. It's about the role of women in Islam. It can be found online easily.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Hades
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Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Yes, it does. You should seek out the short film Submission. It was directed by Theo Van Gogh and written by Ayaan Hirsi Ali (she actually was raised a Muslim in the Middle East). Van Gogh was killed for making the film. It's about the role of women in Islam. It can be found online easily.
Will do.

I think one of the most important things we see happening in our era, concerning this issue, is the flood of Muslims into Europe and the current grappling of how to handle their customs. I'm all for banning the veil in Europe. Muslim men often get integrated (and "westernized" if they choose) far quicker then Muslim women because they do not have as many rules and barriers shackling them when they immigrate to a Western country. More Muslim men having kids with European women etc. The Muslim women remain sheltered (sometimes) even when they are in the new Western society. MAJOR issue.

The whole cartoon debacle also shows the direness of the situation. A danish cartoonist receiving death threats for mocking Allah? Scandinavians mock ALL things religious. It's probably the most atheist region on Earth.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NomadScribe View Post
hhmm, I have a certain, very dirty theory that men are actually very drawn to women who are menstruating but I'll spare the readers this. Although other women I know seem to concur. It's strangely similar to the obvious phenomenon of men being attracted to ovulating women.

Maybe the religious book writers recognized this and feared it on some primal weird level so had to write rules about it.

Diverging...sorry
dont forget that this was also written in a time in which no one really knew much about disease and how it was transferred from one person to another. what they did know was that those people who practiced proper hygiene didnt get sick as often, and usually got well faster.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:17 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you can find similar passages in the bible as well, passages that were written BEFORE the koran.
Nobody's denying that. This kind of ignorance is spouted in the texts of all three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). Muslims just happen to be more adamant about continuing to subscribe to such idiocy in this day and age. Sure, there are some fundie Christian sects and Orthodox Jews who still believe in such loony ideas, but none of them push it on others as hard as radical Muslims. Women aren't even allowed to drive in some nations with laws based on the "morals" of the Koran.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Hades
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
dont forget that this was also written in a time in which no one really knew much about disease and how it was transferred from one person to another. what they did know was that those people who practiced proper hygiene didnt get sick as often, and usually got well faster.
True. Amazing that people are still looking to these sources as the ultimate truth despite all the advances in knowledge we have. You can combine spirituality with evolved knowledge but I guess some people refuse to do so.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:22 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
dont forget that this was also written in a time in which no one really knew much about disease and how it was transferred from one person to another.
This negates the idea that a religious text is the absolute word of any form of god.
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Hades
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Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
Women aren't even allowed to drive in some nations with laws based on the "morals" of the Koran.
Being in a military community, I have met the wives of some "exchange" arabic military members. This is, interestingly, another important frontier of breaking down boundaries. Some of these wives not only learn how to drive while they are here, but also develop a fondness for "Western" society. Even if they want to keep their veils on.
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