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Old 08-23-2010, 06:06 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,886,289 times
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it is terrosist who purposely take aim at civlinas tho. That si the great difference but then The miidle east is still in the 13th centuery as far as personal freedom is concerned anyway;so no surprise.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Look, we have a Constitution.

What does Sharia Law have to do with the United States Constitution? If they are protected by the same thing - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then why is Rauf working with the Sharia Index?

The intent of the Sharia Index is to benchmark the various country's involvement and then they begin pressuring to comply with Sharia if they are not already in compliance.

Have you ever thought about what his purpose is in doing that if what he has is already covered under our Constitution? Is it because there is more involved once Sharia is implemented? Yes, of course there is. Too bad you want to be so blind and call that being paranoid.
You and Hannity can attempt to distort all you want, but that weak and barely tenuous link from a page in Rauf's book is the skin of the teeth of a lie. Those on the extreme right are indeed the one's attempting to be Sharia compliant.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
The U.S. did not intentionally target civilians, if the terrorists weren't such cowards, then maybe they could face us on the battlefield, instead of hiding behind innocent civilians.
100% disagree. The CIA label it as "blow back". Fact: UBL was recruited by the CIA to fight the Russian's in Afghanistan. UBL and the Taliban (follow-on from the Mujahadeen were paid over $4 Billion dollars to equip and train fighters. After the Soviets left Afghanistan, the U.S. continued to give Saudi Arabia 100's of millions of dollars per year to recoup their investments and replenish their military stock. The Saudi's continued to fund UBL and the Taliban until 1999 when UBL didn't heel under their command and UBL created Al-Queda to rebel against Saudi Arabia and the United States (which were basing troops there).

So, the U.S. by indirect but easily followed lines of intent and cooperation did indeed target civilians. U.S. civilians, and through the training they received up through the early 90's, they were able to create a network of spies, target civilians and wreak the havoc of 11 Sep.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I'm sure someone said the same thing about Al Qaeda at one point in time.

I do believe the CIA, NSA, MI-6, and Saudi intel all thought the same thing until roughly 1997...but continued to train, equip and funnel money to them until 1999.

Something about history...repeating itself...hmm....
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
So you exonerate Saddam from the brutal acts he pulled on his people? Gassing the kurds, his sons just randomly picking up young girls to rape them, killing Atheletes when they didn't perform well. All of that? You excuse all of that? How about the ethnic cleansing going on in Somalia, you excuse that too?
Quit dodging. ALL those excuses were good enough to go get him and kill him. However, none of them were attacks or jeopardizing U.S. "interests".

You can't have it both ways. Which of those were direct attacks on the U.S.?
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I heard him say it himself. The video is posted somewhere on this forum.
False. He said our political structure...not our Constitution.

Quote:
T]he American political structure is Shariah compliant ... For America to score even higher on the “Islamic†or “Shariah Compliance†scale, America would need to do two things: invite the voices of all religions to join the dialogue in shaping the nation's practical life, and allow religious communities more leeway to judge among themselves according to their own laws.
Now, you should know better than to believe all of what Hannity says. Especially cherry picked quotes.

Tsk, tsk.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
At their expense? We paid enough to pretty much every damn nation on this planet where they owe us big time. They need to learn not to bite the hand that feeds them or they will end up starving.
UBL's poster child and spokesperson ladies and gentlemen...
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,617 posts, read 84,857,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
The USA did not kill in the name of terrorism! This guy seems to forget that ours was in response to Muslim terrorist attacks.
No.

The Muslim terrorists against the United States are in reaction to grievances built up over decades because of what the US did in their part of the world. They didn't just pop up out of a distant desert and decide to attack the United States. We didn't screw them over because they were Muslims. We did it for control of oil and for profits.

In 1953, the United States did what it had to do to see that the Shah of Iran remained in power because he in turn would ensure that his country's resources would go to the US and not our then-enemy, the Soviet Union. We trained him and his forces in the use of torture so that he could keep those in his country who opposed him at bay, and his rule was brutal. These people did not forget who put him there. And not that long ago, in the 1980's, we were giving bombs to Iraq to use on Iran.

The religious Saudis have objected for decades to the US military presence on what they consider their holy land and from which we have often conducted bombings in which Muslims were killed. Not necessarily because someone attacked us, but because they were in the way of someone's business interests.

Right now we are providing weapons and coordinates to Turkey to aid them in their bombing of the Kurds in northern Iraq. Iran is bombing them too because both countries want to control that part of the country, but we are supporting Turkey because they are our friends this year and Iran is not, all the while of course working a little farther south to help "liberate Iraq". Meanwhile, the Kurds, who are mostly shepherds and farmers, welcomed the US invasion of Iraq because they wanted to get rid of Saddam. Is it entirely out of the realm of possibility that right now there is some 12-year-old Kurdish boy who just saw his family blown to bits with the aid of the United States who will resolve to seek revenge when he is an adult?

I am not defending terrorism, so if that's all you get out of this post please move on. I am just saying LEARN YOUR HISTORY and stop thinking of the United States government and military as some benevolent world uncle who doesn't harm anybody unless it is attacked. Whether or not you believe that what any of what our country has done in its history in the Middle East was justified, you certainly have to be able to understand from whence this hatred of us by some in the world has come.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,097,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aveojohn View Post
So, are you willing to give up your way of life? You live the way you do because we have in the past protected our interests around the world.
Live having to watch my back all the time over-seas? Unable to wear an American flag or U.S. branding to an Arabic market in the Middle East due to what we have "in the past protected our interests around the world"? Have to make excuses for those who are just as bad as the terrorists in their bent and hatred for those who are not like them to those whose country I'm working or passing through?

I live my way of life, in those things, specifically because of people like you and the fact of the way that we have "protected our interests around the world". Trust me, you're doing us no favors and are just as bad as those you're denouncing. Fear and Hate make powerful aphrodisiacs to those to whom that's all that is available. Fear and Hate is NOT what the United States stands for. Yet sadly, there are many more like you who would have it be so. And that's why there are groups like Al-Queda and others. Each and every action has an opposite and equal reaction. Mirror images of each other, hate for hate. Blood for blood. At least they're willing to die for their hate, and fear.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:41 PM
 
46,972 posts, read 26,011,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Look, we have a Constitution.
As luck would have it, yes.

Quote:
What does Sharia Law have to do with the United States Constitution? If they are protected by the same thing - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then why is Rauf working with the Sharia Index?
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not part of the US Constitution, but never mind, let me explain by paraphrasing slightly:

Fundamentalist Imam: "In order to be a proper Muslim, you have to ditch all allegiance to to the country you live in and be in favor of a literal Koran inetrpretation: Amputation as penalty for theft, stoning for adultery, you must abide by all fatwas issued by whatever nutso Ayatollah we currently consider the senior cleric in your branch of Islam. Failing to do so makes you a bad Muslim and a bad human being, an apostate condemned to eternal hellfire."

Rauf's book and other writings:"It is perfectly possible to be a proper Muslim and abide by the US Constitution and laws at the same time, just as you can be good Catholic and abide by the local laws. In fact, fundamentalist Muslim countries have it all wrong and should strive to emulate the US constitution, by instituting a proper division of power, with legislative, executive and judicial branches."

Quote:
The intent of the Sharia Index is to benchmark the various country's involvement and then they begin pressuring to comply with Sharia if they are not already in compliance.
This is what is known as a deliberate fabrication.

Quote:
Have you ever thought about what his purpose is in doing that if what he has is already covered under our Constitution?
Of course. Letting people know that the fundamentalist Imams are full of sh.t.

Quote:
Too bad you want to be so blind and call that being paranoid.
I call them as I see them. The next time someone decries the lack of moderate Muslims in public view, this is the perfect example of what happens if they dare raise their voice.

The bigots will have their demons. Humanizing the Muslims (or Gays, or Blacks, or Jews) just will not do.
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