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Neither me nor my girlfriend advocate illegal immigration, nor have we expressed any more pride in our ancestry (her Mexican, my Irish) than in being an American citizen. But we do acknowledge how silly it is for us as legal American citizens to pretend we have more of a moral right to be here than them. Shouldn't make me disloyal to my country in anyone's eyes for me to admit that.
Well, sure. But may I add one more?
When people start saying/implying that a person shouldn't call themselves "Mexican" or "Mexican-American" because they think it means they're expressing some degree of loyalty to Mexico, a line has been crossed, IMO.
If I might jump in here. Why are you acting like your girlfriend is represented of the sentiments of everyone of Mexican descent? This isn't about you or her but that group in general.
Sorry bud, but illegal aliens do not have a moral or legal right to be in this country. What makes those of like ethnicity who think the above disloyal Americans is that illegal immigration is against U.S. laws.
There is no reason for a person born in this country to call themselves Mexicans or Mexican-Americans since they are Americans by birth. It does indicate dual loyalty and in many cases a disloyalty to this country based on their illegal immigration views as notated in my second paragraph.
If I might jump in here. Why are you acting like your girlfriend is represented of the sentiments of everyone of Mexican descent? This isn't about you or her but that group in general.
Sorry bud, but illegal aliens do not have a moral or legal right to be in this country. What makes those of like ethnicity who think the above disloyal Americans is that illegal immigration is against U.S. laws.
There is no reason for a person born in this country to call themselves Mexicans or Mexican-Americans since they are Americans by birth. It does indicate dual loyalty and in many cases a disloyalty to this country based on their illegal immigration views as notated in my second paragraph.
They have no loyalty here.
They disrespect Americans & pick fights with us.
There are a few that love our country but many do not.
If I might jump in here. Why are you acting like your girlfriend is represented of the sentiments of everyone of Mexican descent? This isn't about you or her but that group in general.
I'm not acting like my girlfriend is representative of anyone else. I mentioned her as an example of someone to disprove that calling oneself "Mexican" or "Mexican-American" necessarily means you have dual loyalties or any loyalty to Mexico whatsoever. The poster then asked, "Why does she call herself a Mexican assuming she is an American citizen?" I answered with a post that included both talk of my gf specifically and my thoughts on illegal immigration. The poster then replied with the post you saw me quoting, not specifying which of his replies were meant for which parts of my post.
I don't mind you "jumping in" (this is a public forum), but please pay better attention to the whole of a conversation before getting involved.
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Originally Posted by Oldglory
Sorry bud, but illegal aliens do not have a moral or legal right to be in this country.
You're seriously going to argue that crossing a man-made line is a moral controversy? A very subjective opinion. Mine is that we have no more moral right to be here than they do. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
There is no reason for a person born in this country to call themselves Mexicans or Mexican-Americans since they are Americans by birth.
No reason not to, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
It does indicate dual loyalty.
BS. I don't know who you're trying to fool with that nonsense, but I actually know better from personal experience, remember?
I'm not acting like my girlfriend is representative of anyone else. I mentioned her as an example of someone to disprove that calling oneself "Mexican" or "Mexican-American" necessarily means you have dual loyalties or any loyalty to Mexico whatsoever. The poster then asked, "Why does she call herself a Mexican assuming she is an American citizen?" I answered with a post that included both talk of my gf specifically and my thoughts on illegal immigration. The poster then replied with the post you saw me quoting, not specifying which of his replies were meant for which parts of my post.
I don't mind you "jumping in" (this is a public forum), but please pay better attention to the whole of a conversation before getting involved.
You're seriously going to argue that crossing a man-made line is a moral controversy? A very subjective opinion. Mine is that we have no more moral right to be here than they do. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
No reason not to, either.
BS. I don't know who you're trying to fool with that nonsense, but I actually know better from personal experience, remember?
Some U.S. citizens of Mexican descent still hold loyalties to Mexico and its citizens above their loyalty to this country. I can't help that you aren't aware of that fact. Your girlfriend as I said is only one person so you can't use her as an example of the entire thought process of the rest. She has her own views.
I am sorry for you that you think this country's borders are meaningless and that anyone and everyone should be allowed to cross them at will without permission of our government and that our citizens have no more of a right to be here than foreigners do. There is no "moral" right to come to any country only a legal right and that has to be obtained by permission.
As for calling oneself by two nationalities especially if born here just makes no sense to me unless it is because they hold some loyalty to their ancestor's country.
There is no reason for us to contine with this since you already lost me by claiming that the citizens of this country have no more right to be in this country than illegal immigrants. What in the world?
I don't see how you can see there is no such ethnicity as Black. By definition ethnicity is a group of people with a shared history, culture, social system, art, music, literature etc. Black Americans have a history and culture that is unique within the United States and for that matter the world.
Sure.....but not all Black people in America are of the same culture. You are being ethnocentric by limiting the term "Black" to the North American variant of people from the African Diaspora. When I say "Black" culture I am referring to America, the Caribbean, Central and South America. My family on my mom's side is Black but not African American. That is why we need this distinction.
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While Black culture is in some ways similar to African culture and in some ways based on African culture it is completely different by virtue of the Middle Passage, slavery and the ensuing struggles for full and equal rights as Americans.
The problem with the term "African-American" is a completed oversimplification which leads to situations where a white person from Africa would be perfectly within reason to refer to themselves as "African-American" if after all they were born and raised in Africa, their family had lived in Africa for several generations and they moved to the United States and were granted citizenship. If you fail to see the grammatical contradiction in that it's only because you choose not to.
Absolutely not. African Americans are identifiable with only one country - America, as well as the continent of Africa as a whole. Their origins are both unknown and traceable to many parts of Africa, hence the genesis of the term "African American."
A white South African, on the other hand, comes from South Africa. A white Kenyan comes from Kenya. They are not "African" Americans upon receiving citizenship. They are South African or Kenyan Americans. Not a very complicated concept.
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Another problem I have with the term African-American is that in many cases even Black Africans in such places an Nigeria, Ghana, South Africa and other parts of Africa really don't see Black Americans as African the same way they see people that were born on the continent and have family that they can trace back for generations. For many Black Americans that link to Africa was permanently and irretrievably broken in slavery.
For every African who ridicules me because I identify with them, there is one who welcomes me because they know I have put a lot of myself into connecting with my origins. I am very much connected to Africa through the music, food, religion and culture handed down to me from my African ancestors. If some colonized or ethnocentric West African doesn't want to include me in his or her ethnic group, they can kiss my big, black African Diaspora ass. Just as whites do not define me, Africans do not define me. I define myself.
Sure.....but not all Black people in America are of the same culture. You are being ethnocentric by limiting the term "Black" to the North American variant of people from the African Diaspora. When I say "Black" culture I am referring to America, the Caribbean, Central and South America. My family on my mom's side is Black but not African American. That is why we need this distinction.
Absolutely not. African Americans are identifiable with only one country - America, as well as the continent of Africa as a whole. Their origins are both unknown and traceable to many parts of Africa, hence the genesis of the term "African American."
A white South African, on the other hand, comes from South Africa. A white Kenyan comes from Kenya. They are not "African" Americans upon receiving citizenship. They are South African or Kenyan Americans. Not a very complicated concept.
For every African who ridicules me because I identify with them, there is one who welcomes me because they know I have put a lot of myself into connecting with my origins. I am very much connected to Africa through the music, food, religion and culture handed down to me from my African ancestors. If some colonized or ethnocentric West African doesn't want to include me in his or her ethnic group, they can kiss my big, black African Diaspora ass. Just as whites do not define me, Africans do not define me. I define myself.
You make some excellent points.
I am an American of mostly European descent. Because of ship records and baptismal records, I can trace my ancestors back to the 1300s in England, France, and Germany. This is very interesting to me personally, to be able to connect in some way to my ancestors. Lots of people really enjoy the study of genealogy because of that sense of history and connectivity.
This is one luxury that unfortunately, most Americans of African descent will never be able to enjoy. They have been robbed of this by the slave trade (which both Europeans AND Africans benefited from in various capacities, since some Africans were complicit in the procurement and sale of slaves).
So - I understand the usage of the term "African" American. Fellow "white" Americans - most of us know something about our ancestry - which European country at least some of our ancestors came from. We at the very LEAST have surnames to go by. "Black" Americans don't even have THAT small luxury - they were often simply assigned surnames.
To my fellow Americans whose ancestors came from Africa - I say if you emotionally need or want that connection, more power to you. As an American who is quite interested in my British and German "roots," I can understand wanting to feel a connectivity to your ancestral history.
When American-born blacks cut their unwed mothers rate of 72% in half or better, then I'll consider them a decent people.
Interestingly, there is nothing you could ever do that would make me consider you a decent person.
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A very subjective opinion. Mine is that we have no more moral right to be here than they do. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
