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Says who? A firm hired by the parents and the vulture race baiters (al, jesse, nbpp). According to the WITNESS, the one screaming was Zimmerman, who was being beaten by Martin.
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It was actually 2 experts who claim this after close examination of the phone calls. Care to rebute them?
The video was made AFTER he had received medical attention. Any blood would have been cleaned up.
Within a half hour after receiving a brutal beating, which included blows to the face/nose, his head being slammed repeatedly on concrete and shooting Martin, Zimmerman emerges from the police car looking as if he just stepped out of a movie theater.
I'd feel silly to tell someone that I thought he just got cleaned up good while receiving medical attention.
Did they take photos before they gave him medical attention in the back of a police car?
1. Charge Zimmerman with manslaughter
2. Subpoena all of these "witnesses" --make them testify under oath
3. Introduce all of the DNA and forensic evidence
4. Let an impartial jury of his peers decide his fate
Especially the bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin
And I was hit in the head with a ball bat and released a few hours later. It all depends on the physician seeing you. I am of the wait and see what comes out in this case, so I have no dog in the hunt with regards to the back and forth Zimmerman/Martin crowd.
Released in a few hours is different than not even being examined by a dr. I posted a link on one of these Zimmerman/Martin threads (not going to look for it now, but you can if you want) that Zimmerman was examined at the scene (not sure if by anyone with any medical qualifications) and Zimmerman said he did not need to be seen by a dr. Now, a few weeks later, he says through his father and lawyer that he "feared for his life" during the beating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn
Not necessarily, you can get knocked down and hit in the head, bumping it against the ground, all of which could make you fear for your life, all without incurring a concussion or internal bleeding. The police made the decision after he had received medical attention that he had not been harmed enough to take him to the hospital. That is part of their training to make that assessment.
Well, "fearing for your life" is subjective, that's for sure. A good head pounding, especially on concrete which a bunch of his defenders allege, would necessitate examination by a physician to determine if he had a concussion. One can get a concussion w/o losing consciousness.
It was actually 2 experts who claim this after close examination of the phone calls. Care to rebute them?
i would think that BOTH voices would have to be analyzed and, as one person said earlier, there must be voice recordings of both on cell phones, you tube, or elsewhere for comparison purposes.
i don't suppose the witnesses would know who was actually screaming for help, considering it was raining, dark, and (if )they were inside their homes.
they would have just heard an altercation. most of the callers that i heard just knew that something bad was going on, but couldn't identify what exactly.
whoever was screaming was the person who was in "fear for their life", and that, to me, would seem to be the most crucial component here.
With no offense intended, the argument over the minutia of where Martin's body was positioned, who was on top, Martin's autopsy report is of little importance. Even the racial issues aren't as critical to me, troubling, but not critical. The issues for me are;
who initiated the conflict,
who actually had a reasonable belief of being at risk,
was there a reasonable use of deadly force,
whose voice was heard calling for help.
So far, in my opinion Zimmerman has a huge evidentiary mountain to climb. It is clear from the time line that at;
7:11 Zimmerman called police reporting Martin,
7:12 Martin places a call where it has been reported that Martin placed a call stating that Zimmerman was following him and his girl friend advises him to run,
7:13 Zimmerman tells police that Martin is running. During the call the door of his car is heard to open as he exits the vehicle and is asked by the police dispatcher if he is following Martin to which he responds, "yes". At that point he is advised not to. At first he tells the operator that instead of giving police directions as to where to meet him, he states, "Actually, could you have him call me, and I'll tell him where I'm at?"
7:15 Zimmerman hangs up.
7:16 After following Martin to the back of two townhouses, Martin is heard to demands to know why Zimmerman is following (confirmed by Zimmerman's father).
Somewhere in between 7:16 and 7:17 when police arrived Trayvon Martin laid dying on the ground.
For me the issues are clear:
that an angry and hostile Zimmerman set out armed with a deadly weapon to confront Martin despite advise given by the police,
that Zimmerman instead of waiting to assist police took off after Martin,
that at the time there was no evidence that a crime had been committed or that there existed an imminent threat of one being committed.
that Martin did not sneak up after Zimmerman but rather at the very least was faced by Martin who verbal confronted him,
that the armed Zimmerman had an opportunity and responsibility to attempt deescalating the confrontation of his own making,
that it is far more reasonable to assume that Martin had a greater right to stand his ground and defend himself than Zimmerman having at first walked away and later running away from an unidentified male stalking him,
The crucial piece of evidence, if I were a member of the grand jury wouldn't be whether or not I would vote to indict Zimmerman for homicide but what would be the severity of the charge and that would hinge on the voice recognition analysis. If it was indeed the voice of Martin and not Zimmerman, I would vote for first degree murder.
i have yet to hear a 911 call from a racist with intent to murder a black teen. clue, when out to murder someone, they don't call 911 when stalking their victim. usually, it's the victim that calls 911 first. when a strange man is following you, there are a few options: call 911, run real fast, or stop and confront. if the person doesn't look threatening, then confrontation is more likely.
prosecution needs to prove that zimmerman is racist. this is impossible after a black friend is defending him. prosecution also needs to prove that zimmerman started the fight. again, no witness seeing the start of the fight. there are a few witnesses reporting that a man in red was on the ground and a man in white being on top. then after the shot, a witness sees the man in red is now on top of the man in white. another witness reporting that he actually witnessed zimmerman yelling for help before the shot was fired.
as for the police video, since he was treated before going to the station and he was wearing a red jacket at the time of killing, his clean appearance can easily be explained. the cops are the only witness to his actual condition.
since the FBI, justice department and FL special prosecution fail to get evidence against zimmerman, then they cannot charge him for any crime.
under due process of law, he only needs to prove innocence when charged for a crime. no charges, therefore, no need to defend himself. so far, the evidence speaks for him, but the original media representation has turned public opinion against him.
Nonsense. The impact from the bullet would naturally fling him backwards.
Says who? A firm hired by the parents and the vulture race baiters (al, jesse, nbpp). According to the WITNESS, the one screaming was Zimmerman, who was being beaten by Martin.
Hey, the guy is hispanic, not white.....can't USE that old canard in this case.
Neighbor defends George Zimmerman (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012 - broken link)
I guess the neighbors are lying too.
The Orlando Sentinel hired the voice experts, but you could have googled that yourself. Let's get real...if the determination of these two experts was in Zimmerman's favor, you woud be singing their praises and touting their expertise.
Under Florida law, there is no "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a lawful right to be. Instead, you may stand your ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.
The police are not charging Zimmerman because under Florida gun laws self defense is an affirmative defense for using deadly force. Being knocked to the ground alone is cause to fear great bodily harm, one needs no more defense then that to justify using deadly force.
zimmerman has a feminine pitch voice. i would rather believe and eyewitness than a paid expert. it's not hard to find experts to support whatever evidence.
The police are not charging Zimmerman because under Florida gun laws self defense is an affirmative defense for using deadly force. Being knocked to the ground alone is cause to fear great bodily harm, one needs no more defense then that to justify using deadly force.
It's a bit more complicated than that when you follow someone and initiate the confrontation.
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