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Too bad Martin confronted him after Zimmerman gave up on his search.
So Zimmerman allegedly claims.
But since you brought it up, if this was the case, how was Martin to know that Zimmerman had "given up the chase" or had simply changed the direction of his search? Martin was still aways from his home.
Second that argument doesn't line-up with the sworn statement of Martin's girlfriend who was on the phone with him throughout.
And, Zimmerman still had an obligation under Florida statute to do everything in his power to avoid a physical confrontation as a result of his stalking an innocent and lawful citizen.
You also might want to address why Zimmerman never recalled the police that he had lost Martin and that he was returning to his truck so he could meet the approaching officers who would arrive only 1 minute after he shot Martin?
George Zimmerman lost job as party security guard for being too aggressive, ex-co-worker says
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”
It is not possible to determine that from the video, it is too low a quality to tell much of anything about the condition of his nose or skin on his head.
The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose. and that he was given medical attention before he was transported to the police station. Typically medical attention for that bleeding would have cleaned up any sign of it, and all of this happened before he was transported to the police station, where the video was made.
In addition to the witnesses (his neighbors) that claim he was "banged up", his eye, nose and face swollen.
I'll take the testimony of the WITNESS, who saw Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quality guy
A rank fool would not accept the spinmeister trickery that is being given to the public regarding Zimmerman.
The video was CLEAR. He was not hurt. There's a cover-up going on....and we know it.
Nonsense. An hour after the fact would not result in visible bruises, black eyes and a swollen face....the next day, yeah, which is what his neighbors saw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trlhiker
It was actually 2 experts who claim this after close examination of the phone calls. Care to rebute them?
Based on what? How about the EYE WITNESS that said Zimmerman was screaming for help?
Maybe the gunshot didn't knock him THAT far back, but just enough that he tumbled off the man he was beating the crap out of.
Never said that he did, but Martin is dead as the result of Zimmerman's "legal confrontation," a confrontation that was initiated by him even under Florida law fortunately:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
You have to establish that Zimmerman is the aggressor - that he provoked the use of force against himself.
That is no where in the record.
If there was evidence that Zimmerman laid hands on Martin...then perhaps we could label Zimmerman as the aggressor.
But in fact Zimmerman was in a place where he lived and had every right to be and he in fact would be well within his rights to challenge the presence of Martin. We again are not discussing the wisdom of such a course but its legality.
I can even see this being a situation in which Martin had a right to attack to defend himself while Zimmerman still does not qualify as an aggressor. The law does not have reciprocity. You don't have to be an aggressor to cause a reasonable person to fear bodily harm or death.
Quote:
By involving himself in a confrontation what he was advised not to enter, and by entering into that confrontation armed with a deadly weapon, Zimmerman put into play a series of events that he holds full responsibility for. In arguing that Martin had more than sufficient grounds to believe that;
that Martin being lawfully where he was had every reasonable belief that as the result of Zimmerman's stalking angry demeanor (see 911 tapes) that it was he who was threatened by death or serious bodily harm (see evidence that Martin ran away from Zimmerman even though he had committed no crime),
that once engaged in the defense of his person discovering his assailant armed with a firearm, Martin had every reason to remove that firearm from his assailant,
that by being in possession of a firearm while confronting Martin, Zimmerman had every responsibility to avoid a physical confrontation whereby his weapon might be lost to the victim.
I am aware of no statute that places different requirements on behavior depending on whether or not you are armed. So being armed creates no duties on Zimmermans part. You may argue that it should...but at this time it does not.
I believe I agreed before that in a battle over possession of the gun the winner could claim self defense. So certainly Martin should have gone for the gun if he had the chance.
And again having a weapon in no way creates some new duties for Zimmerman past that of an unarmed man. You may well be correct that it should...but it does not.
I walk with a cane that is in fact a reasonably good sized shillelagh. While I am well past the age where it is likely someone that should strike me or my wife best not be within reach. While my legs are poor and balance bad there is absolutely nothing wrong with my chest or arms and a well swung shillelagh is a deadly weapon. I feel no need to retreat or behave differently while I am carrying it.
Nonsense. An hour after the fact would not result in visible bruises, black eyes and a swollen face...
...Yes it would.
Let me put it to you this way.
This past tuesday, I was in a rock concert with a fierce mosh pit, as was my wife.
Wifey-poo actually got into the thick of the action, and took an elbow to the face as well as other minor injuries.
She bruised up quickly.
If Zimmerman was beaten as bad as was claimed, we would've seen some sort of sign of swelling, brusing, or bloodstains,e ven if cleaned up, even an hour after the event.
The problem is, we haven't. If this is factual, the lawyer should release the medical report, as there most assuredly is one.
I'm still reserving final judgement until the case is completely over with, as I'm pretty sure there's more to Martin's side, but to say this is completely a case of self defense on Zimmerman's side, doesn't coincide with physical evidence that's been released so far.
But since you brought it up, if this was the case, how was Martin to know that Zimmerman had "given up the chase" or had simply changed the direction of his search? Martin was still aways from his home.
Second that argument doesn't line-up with the sworn statement of Martin's girlfriend who was on the phone with him throughout.
And, Zimmerman still had an obligation under Florida statute to do everything in his power to avoid a physical confrontation as a result of his stalking an innocent and lawful citizen.
You also might want to address why Zimmerman never recalled the police that he had lost Martin and that he was returning to his truck so he could meet the approaching officers who would arrive only 1 minute after he shot Martin?
and the girlfriend is a partial witness how again? Why would he need to call the police again?
In addition to the witnesses (his neighbors) that claim he was "banged up", his eye, nose and face swollen.
I'll take the testimony of the WITNESS, who saw Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help.
Nonsense. An hour after the fact would not result in visible bruises, black eyes and a swollen face....the next day, yeah, which is what his neighbors saw.
Based on what? How about the EYE WITNESS that said Zimmerman was screaming for help?
Maybe the gunshot didn't knock him THAT far back, but just enough that he tumbled off the man he was beating the crap out of.
Eye-witness testimony is actually known to be quite unreliable.
As far as bruising- have you ever seen a fresh trauma? Ever seen someone come directly from the street fist fight to a hospital- bruising can take a few hours, but if you've very light, you can notice it very early. Swelling is pretty much immediate. Of course this is all shades of grey. However, if you're supposedly beaten to within an inch of your life, you'd expect a bit more. It just doesn't fit.
That said, Zimmerman may have 'felt' like his life was in danger. So that's why the jury gets involved.
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