Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You are basically arguing laws are immoral and lawlessness is moral.
Would you say there are no immoral laws?
Putting people in jail for a plant that doesn't hurt anyone is a bit immoral, imo. If you get behind the wheel stoned, and kill a bunch of nuns, you should be arrested for that. But if your at home watching at world's end with a fresh sheet of cookies and no where to go for the next 10 hours, whose business is it what I do in my home? If I'm not hurting anyone, then there are no moral laws broken
If you want to regain control of the situation in your area then you would be for treating addicts as having a medical problem, just like we treat alcoholics. You would also be for taking the illegality off these substances so that real addicts could seek treatment in treatment centers that are now filled with people mandated to be there that don't have an addiction problem, but chose that instead of incarceration.
They can seen treatment right now, but they don't. Organized crime is involved in every country where drugs have been decriminalized, Holland being only one example.
Putting people in jail for a plant that doesn't hurt anyone is a bit immoral, imo. If you get behind the wheel stoned, and kill a bunch of nuns, you should be arrested for that. But if your at home watching at world's end with a fresh sheet of cookies and no where to go for the next 10 hours, whose business is it what I do in my home? If I'm not hurting anyone, then there are no moral laws broken
People are locked up for breaking the law. You have no respect for the law, and you sit there calling law abiding citizens immoral. Some pretty twisted logic you got there.
You are basically arguing laws are immoral and lawlessness is moral.
Again, just because something is the law, it doesn't make it a just or moral law. And given that laws are man made, they can be flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Would you say there are no immoral laws?
Putting people in jail for a plant that doesn't hurt anyone is a bit immoral, imo. If you get behind the wheel stoned, and kill a bunch of nuns, you should be arrested for that. But if your at home watching at world's end with a fresh sheet of cookies and no where to go for the next 10 hours, whose business is it what I do in my home? If I'm not hurting anyone, then there are no moral laws broken
There are plenty of them! Prosecuting those who consume cannabis is definitely up there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
People are locked up for breaking the law. You have no respect for the law, and you sit there calling law abiding citizens immoral. Some pretty twisted logic you got there.
Well, based on your logic, back in the day it was OK to discriminate against black folks, and since by law it was acceptable, then hey.... the law is the law, right???! No matter how immoral it may seem, right? I guess for example Rosa Parks should have just shut her pie hole, and sat at the back of the bus like a good little *****, right? Sorry Finn, but I have no respect for laws that do nothing but harm others just for purpose of controlling others or to line the pockets of special interest groups that lobby against something because it may hurt their bottom line! This country was founded on challenging authority, and allowing for maximum individual freedoms that were given to us by our creator, and not some damn emperor, king, dictator, or some damn bureaucrat!!!! Sometimes you have to fight to change the laws when they're bad laws.
That does not mean I condone those who use it, rather, I find them lame. I find those who use alcohol to "help make their day better" to be just as lame.
I have been around drug addicts and alcoholics enough to know that I can't stand either group. But, if a person wants to slowly kill themselves, or kill their brain cells and become even more stupid, they can knock themselves out.
We already have laws on the books for those who hurt other people, doesn't matter if they were drunk, high, stoned, or just jerks. We don't need more laws. Having said that, if we allow people to smoke all the weed that their little hearts desire, we need to make driving while intoxicated, (to include those who are high), have much harsher punishments, much more jail time, much more in fines. No more of this 90 days, and out you go, if you drive around while drunk or stoned, you need to pay, severely.
Those idiots out there who think that driving while stoned is no big deal, that car accident that I have talked about, that I was involved in, in 1999? The other driver was HIGH as a kite. I am still injured, to this day, because of that *******. So it does affect your driving, and if you smoke your joint, and then get in to a car to drive, you and the drunks should face severe punishments.
If you want to do it in your home and damage yourself, I could not give one little whit of concern for you. But the government shouldn't be involved, unless the person hurts another, or infringes on their rights.
That does not mean I condone those who use it, rather, I find them lame. I find those who use alcohol to "help make their day better" to be just as lame.
Moderation, and a bit of responsibility is key. If it doesn't consume their life to the point where they're missing work, driving around under the influence or going to work under the influence beating their wife or kids (pot generally doesn't make one violent BTW, alcohol does) then there is no harm.
I have been around drug addicts and alcoholics enough to know that I can't stand either group. But, if a person wants to slowly kill themselves, or kill their brain cells and become even more stupid, they can knock themselves out.
I worked as a DJ for many years, so I can relate. Nothing worse than belligerent drunks. As for drug addicts, we had a meth addict in our neighborhood, who was also manufacturing the stuff. Let's just say we're glad he is gone. Dude was nothing but a headache. Not to mention manufacturing in a condo in close proximity to others made him a danger.
We already have laws on the books for those who hurt other people, doesn't matter if they were drunk, high, stoned, or just jerks. We don't need more laws. Having said that, if we allow people to smoke all the weed that their little hearts desire, we need to make driving while intoxicated, (to include those who are high), have much harsher punishments, much more jail time, much more in fines. No more of this 90 days, and out you go, if you drive around while drunk or stoned, you need to pay, severely.
I agree. Nobody should drive while under the influence of any mind altering substance. Yes that goes for those who abuse prescription drugs too.
Those idiots out there who think that driving while stoned is no big deal, that car accident that I have talked about, that I was involved in, in 1999? The other driver was HIGH as a kite. I am still injured, to this day, because of that *******. So it does affect your driving, and if you smoke your joint, and then get in to a car to drive, you and the drunks should face severe punishments.
No arguement. If you harm someone because of your actions and lack of responsibility then you should indeed be held accountable for them.
If you want to do it in your home and damage yourself, I could not give one little whit of concern for you. But the government shouldn't be involved, unless the person hurts another, or infringes on their rights.
I'm with you and your logic completely makes sense.
^^ Sorry to hear about your accident. Have close friends who lost their dad to someone driving while high.
As far as the whole driving argument goes though, some can handle it, others can't. Just like some people text or talk while driving. However the penalties are not even close to the same despite texting/talking while driving being much more dangerous. I help take care of a sibling who was T-Boned by a guy talking on his cell phone. Do I think those caught texting or talking should face harsh jail time? No. But those who actually commit a crime (wrecks while doing so) should face repurcussions.
People are selective in what laws they feel should be enforced. Or maybe its just the politicians.
In states where marijuana has been legalized, traffic fatalities have decrease 9% on average. There are also multiple studies that show that marijuana users are safer drivers. I understand there is a risk involved, but if we're going to legislate based on risk, lets legislate based on risk.
Texters and talkers should get the same punishments as drunk drivers.
Alcohol is involved in about 30% of traffic fatalities annually. Marijuana less than 1%. Distracted driving (talking texting) is higher than 1%, but I'm not sure of the exact number.
All I'm saying is lets be objective in addressing the issue.
^^ Sorry to hear about your accident. Have close friends who lost their dad to someone driving while high.
As far as the whole driving argument goes though, some can handle it, others can't. Just like some people text or talk while driving. However the penalties are not even close to the same despite texting/talking while driving being much more dangerous. I help take care of a sibling who was T-Boned by a guy talking on his cell phone. Do I think those caught texting or talking should face harsh jail time? No. But those who actually commit a crime (wrecks while doing so) should face repurcussions.
People are selective in what laws they feel should be enforced. Or maybe its just the politicians.
In states where marijuana has been legalized, traffic fatalities have decrease 9% on average. There are also multiple studies that show that marijuana users are safer drivers. I understand there is a risk involved, but if we're going to legislate based on risk, lets legislate based on risk.
Texters and talkers should get the same punishments as drunk drivers.
Alcohol is involved in about 30% of traffic fatalities annually. Marijuana less than 1%. Distracted driving (talking texting) is higher than 1%, but I'm not sure of the exact number.
All I'm saying is lets be objective in addressing the issue.
I am being objective. It took me many years to get to this point. For the longest time, especially after I got hit, by some tool shed who then tried to claim his car was stolen, (that was magically returned to his home right after the accident, by the "thief", the cops discovered), I was absolutely against legalizing it. I would fight you tooth and nail until I was blue in the face if you even dared suggest it.
Trust me, Gtown, I'm being very objective.
And yes, I agree with you about texting and driving/cell phone use and driving. A vehicle is not a toy. You can easily kill people, maim them, cripple them, or injure them for life because you, (general you, not YOU personally), are too damned selfish to consider anyone else on the road while you satisfy your wants.
Again, if someone hurts another due to alcohol, drugs, or even texting/talking on a cell, they absolutely SHOULD be harshly punished. How could anyone disagree with that?
I am being objective. It took me many years to get to this point. For the longest time, especially after I got hit, by some tool shed who then tried to claim his car was stolen, (that was magically returned to his home right after the accident, by the "thief", the cops discovered), I was absolutely against legalizing it. I would fight you tooth and nail until I was blue in the face if you even dared suggest it.
Trust me, Gtown, I'm being very objective.
And yes, I agree with you about texting and driving/cell phone use and driving. A vehicle is not a toy. You can easily kill people, maim them, cripple them, or injure them for life because you, (general you, not YOU personally), are too damned selfish to consider anyone else on the road while you satisfy your wants.
Again, if someone hurts another due to alcohol, drugs, or even texting/talking on a cell, they absolutely SHOULD be harshly punished. How could anyone disagree with that?
No it's not. I take driving very seriously. There are seriously a lot of bad drivers out there! Knowing that and living in a fairly large metropolitan area makes me an even more defensive driver.
Again, just because something is the law, it doesn't make it a just or moral law. And given that laws are man made, they can be flawed.
There are plenty of them! Prosecuting those who consume cannabis is definitely up there.
Well, based on your logic, back in the day it was OK to discriminate against black folks, and since by law it was acceptable, then hey.... the law is the law, right???! No matter how immoral it may seem, right? I guess for example Rosa Parks should have just shut her pie hole, and sat at the back of the bus like a good little *****, right? Sorry Finn, but I have no respect for laws that do nothing but harm others just for purpose of controlling others or to line the pockets of special interest groups that lobby against something because it may hurt their bottom line! This country was founded on challenging authority, and allowing for maximum individual freedoms that were given to us by our creator, and not some damn emperor, king, dictator, or some damn bureaucrat!!!! Sometimes you have to fight to change the laws when they're bad laws.
Couldn't have replied any better
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No matter how immoral it may seem, right? I guess for example Rosa Parks should have just shut her pie hole, and sat at the back of the bus like a good little *****, right? Sorry Finn, but I have no respect for laws that do nothing but harm others just for purpose of controlling others or to line the pockets of special interest groups that lobby against something because it may hurt their bottom line! This country was founded on challenging authority, and allowing for maximum individual freedoms that were given to us by our creator, and not some damn emperor, king, dictator, or some damn bureaucrat!!!! Sometimes you have to fight to change the laws when they're bad laws.
