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They chose this bakery because one of their mothers used this bakery for their wedding and they liked the results.
They should not be forced to make a cake that has anything related to homosexuality on it, whether that be two dudes or two females on the cake. Why should they be forced to do that?
Same goes with anything else. If someone wants Hail Hitler written on a cake, the business should be allowed to say no.
And if government comes in and says I have to or I go to jail or pay a huge fine, I would then do a half assed job. Make them regret coming to me in the first place. The worst they can do at that point is right a nasty review online. Oh well.
I am of the motto, "We have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, or no reason at all." THAT is freedom. That is what this country is supposed to be about.
They should not be forced to make a cake that has anything related to homosexuality on it, whether that be two dudes or two females on the cake. Why should they be forced to do that?
Same goes with anything else. If someone wants Hail Hitler written on a cake, the business should be allowed to say no.
And if government comes in and says I have to or I go to jail or pay a huge fine, I would then do a half assed job. Make them regret coming to me in the first place. The worst they can do at that point is right a nasty review online. Oh well.
I am of the motto, "We have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, or no reason at all." THAT is freedom. That is what this country is supposed to be about.
Considering they never even got to the discussion of what the cake was going to look like, you can't claim there was an objection to the decorations.
They may have wanted a simple cake with white fondant, and sugar flowers. We don't know, because the baker refused them service as soon as he learned that there were two women getting married.
Considering they never even got to the discussion of what the cake was going to look like, you can't claim there was an objection to the decorations.
They may have wanted a simple cake with white fondant, and sugar flowers. We don't know, because the baker refused them service as soon as he learned that there were two women getting married.
Ill give you that one then. Personally, if it were me, Id say sure but I would not add certain things to the cake that would acknowledge gay marriage. That though, would probably not sit well with them and we'd be in the same situation. Id most likely bake a cake for any respectful customer, but there are things I would refuse to put on or decorate the cake with.
Having said that, as bad as it may seem, I do believe businesses should have any right to refuse service. Let the market decide once word gets out, if they stay open or not. Not government.
Ill give you that one then. Personally, if it were me, Id say sure but I would not add certain things to the cake that would acknowledge gay marriage. That though, would probably not sit well with them and we'd be in the same situation. Id most likely bake a cake for any respectful customer, but there are things I would refuse to put on or decorate the cake with.
Having said that, as bad as it may seem, I do believe businesses should have any right to refuse service. Let the market decide once word gets out, if they stay open or not. Not government.
I would be afraid of things added IN the cake.
I would never eat or, have a cake for others to eat that someone did not want to make.
Your free to interpret it that way if you choose. But the Bible calls homosexuality an "abomination" and "detestable" to God. It is a sin against God himself.
Divorce was not condemned in the way homosexuality is, and people did divorce. If you want to make a case of divorce (ridiculous) then you would also have to make the same case for any sin.
But, nice try.
Nice try, but what does your bible have to do with people who do not believe in it? Why should everyone obey your bibles tenets? Your bible means squat to me and to many others, I do not obey it, I do not believe in it and I will not tolerate laws that are created to sanction it.
The law cannot compel me as a private contractor (and the baker was a private contractor, baking custom wedding cakes, not selling off the shelf cakes that anyone could walk in and buy) to provide service to someone I don't wish to work for, for whatever reason.
It can compel you not to discriminate. This is well established in jurisprudence.
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If it does, that becomes "involuntary servitude" under the Thirteenth amendment.
No, it doesn't. Neither the letter or the spirit of the amendment applies here. To argue otherwise is pure stupidity.
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In my former work, doing ceramic tile installation, I occasionally turned down a job that I didn't want to do (various reasons). The law cannot force me to do work for somebody just because they asked me to.
Cool story. I don't think anyone said there weren't a host of legal reasons you could refuse the work. Discrimination is not one of them, however.
Either learn to deal with, or stop doing business with the public. The choice is yours.
I have to disagree with you here. Businesses are incapable of possessing religious beliefs. There is no such thing as a "christian bakery."
It doesn't matter if a bakery that provides wedding cakes for sale to the public- either here in Denver or up in Gresham Oregon - is owned by an atheist, a fundamentalist Christian, the Catholic Church, or the local Mosque; none of them would be allowed refuse to sell their wedding cakes to gay people.
I agree with you, I was thinking of a church run bakery, but I do not even know of any to speak of and it would have to be a non profit and again I do not know of any. I was just pointing out to the poster that a business is run and operated by the individual, not that individuals religion. As you said, just because I myself am an atheist, does not make me an atheist garden service. I work for people who are Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Black, White, Asian and Pakistani. I take photos for a hobby and have done a straight wedding for a divorced couple, a gay wedding for two guys I know and a lesbian wedding for two of my friends. I only charged for the straight wedding because the man who was my client, insisted and I still charged him 40% of what he had planned on and I did more than he expected. But with my garden service, everyones money is good, what do I care what their religious beliefs are, their yard is not their religious belief. Laws like these just allow people to couch their hatred behind their bibles, because they do not just allow Christians to use their bible to discriminate when dealing with the public in business, but allow any one to use their religion to deny services.
They should not be forced to make a cake that has anything related to homosexuality on it, whether that be two dudes or two females on the cake. Why should they be forced to do that?
Same goes with anything else. If someone wants Hail Hitler written on a cake, the business should be allowed to say no.
And if government comes in and says I have to or I go to jail or pay a huge fine, I would then do a half assed job. Make them regret coming to me in the first place. The worst they can do at that point is right a nasty review online. Oh well.
I am of the motto, "We have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, or no reason at all." THAT is freedom. That is what this country is supposed to be about.
I agree with you 100%. In this day and age, there are few people who would actually refuse to provide services to anyone on the basis of "race" which is what civil rights laws were enacted to prevent.
This isn't a "civil rights" issue. But "gays" try to make it one.
One's skin color is not a valid reason for refusing service to anyone. Immoral acts that violate the tenets of one's faith are.
No one should be forced to participate in any manner in any activity or celebration of anything which is in violation of the tenets of their faith. Homosexuality, and homosexual "marriage," is debauchery, and violates clear teachings of Scripture, both in the Old Testament and the New. Moreover, it is a sin against God himself, as man was made in the image of God.
Any of these people could have easily found others to provide these services, which means the motivation for these lawsuits is suspect. My view, and the view of others, is that they were specifically targeted, for purposes of bringing suit, and setting legal precedent in order to advance their agenda. These people will stop at nothing. They are militant activists who hate anything Christian. Their purpose is to make Christianity irrelevant in this country. There is no group of people more hateful or intolerant than "gay" activists.
"Gays" are doing themselves no favors by these tactics. They are bringing attention to their hypocrisy, bigotry and hatred for anyone not sympathetic to their agenda.
It isn't about "equality." It's about the destruction of social norms. Civilized society itself is under attack, and religion is the primary target.
Another obfuscation and deliberate diversion. Your point has no relevancy to this argument.
It has a lot to do with it, this law would have allowed those with a strong religious belief to use that to deny service to a homosexual based on their beliefs, including nurses, waitresses, doctors, lawyers etc, where would it end? Would it just be photographers and bakeries? NO it would not end there.
He was not "using his religion to discriminate." He is claiming his right not to dishonor God by glorifying something that God says should only be between an man and a woman. Period. He has that right, and a duty before God to act according to the teachings of his faith.
This is not a case of racial discrimination, and cannot be compared. That is simply a tactic. There is no comparison.
Any discrimination is discrimination and it is not just about race, it is about sex, age, race, sexual orientation too. His god does not operate his business and it does not grant him special rights to discriminate against anyone. His beliefs do not trump law and laws should not be made that give him that privilege or anyone that privilege. Any thing you do not agree with you turn around and try and dismiss. Does not work or make you right, just a poor debater.
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