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I lived through that time too sanspeur. In Pakistan diseases like polio are thriving because there is no coherent vaccination program, that's because the medical teams who are sent out to vaccinate the children were being murdered by the Taliban.
The less educated of the Pakistani community believe that the vaccine is being used to control birth rate and decrease women's fertility, others claim that it weakens children. The Taliban in particular are using the ignorance of these people, most of whom are illiterate, to refuse the anti polio vaccine that would protect their children.
The People of Pakistan at least have an excuse for their choices, ignorance. But people in the USA or Europe who would place their own children and their community in danger are in fact just as ignorant as those poor buggers living in their mud huts in Pakistan.
I lived through that time too.
The anti-vax people today in 1st world countries who place their children and communities at risk are worse than ignorant because they are deliberately and knowingly putting other people at risk in spite of being educated better. That is intent to commit harm and that is a crime and should be treated as a crime.
There was a time when lepers were treated like .... well, they were treated like lepers. Lepers were killed and their bodies burned or they were isolated away from the rest of society, like criminals being put away in a prison. Then they were left there to rot.
Here is one possible solution to the anti-vaxxer problem. It's extreme but in the end run it might act as a deterrent to future anti-vaxxers. 1st world anti-vaxxers who deliberately and knowingly commit the crime of exposing the rest of society to their diseases could be treated like the lepers were treated. Their children would be taken away from them and the anti-vaxxers could be sterilized and then isolated with other anti-vaxxer criminals. Eventually the diseases they don't want to vaccinate against will be introduced by other anti-vaxxers and catch up to all of them in their isolation and then they will all die and they won't be a problem any more.
Something no one ever seems to answer is this - If your kid is vaccinated, why are you worried about any of this? Aren't they protected? If anyone who wants a vaccination for their kid can get one, wouldn't that mean anyone not vaccinating their kid already knows and accepts the risks?
Tetanus? Got a nail imbedded in my foot while visiting an old cemetary 40 years ago. Pulled it out myself and put perioxide on it and a bandaid. That was 40 years ago. Didn't DIE then so I suppose I am SAFE in 2015?
No. And lockjaw is a rotten way to go, incidentally.
Kids have never had as many problems and have never been as medicated and Autistic as they have over the last 25 years - coinciding directly with the rise in the vax schedule (among other things).
Never had as many problems?
Here's a problem for you:
I swear, it's like people are holding on to stock in the Ole Iron Lung Company, hoping that it will rebound or something.
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 01-30-2015 at 07:30 PM..
What do you mean believe as I do?....It's freakin' science, not a belief....You are putting your own kids at risk as well as others...I've lived through a time when there were no vaccines for many of the illnesses that today have mostly been eradicated...I've lost friends and family to both polio and tuberculosis...You probably don't even know that thousands lived in iron lungs....It was not pretty......If everyone acted as you do we would be back to a less than 50 year average life expectancy.
Excellent links, thanks. This paragraph (from the article in your second link) really stood out to me:
As a parent, just imagine what it must’ve been like in the 19th century: 1 out of every 5 children died from some sort of infectious disease. Most parents could expect to lose at least one of their children before the child reached age 10. Therefore there is a good reason so much emphasis has been placed on the importance of vaccination. It doesn’t mean that one needs to accept the status quo without question, but for any person who convinces him- or herself that our world would be better off without inoculation has never lived in a society without them.
My mother lost 3 of her siblings to infectious disease back in the 1930s. Two of those siblings died three days apart. Can you even imagine that?! I know hardly anyone my age who has ever lost a young child, let alone THREE! I am so grateful for the scientists who discovered/developed the vaccinations we now have.
Right back at ya - Consequences of one person's choices can spill over to other people. I'm not allowing you the choice to juggle live grenades if I'm within the blast radius, and I am not willing to be forced to vaccinate until you can 100% prove and guarantee my and my children's safety and that vaccines are 100% safe for use by all.
Your level of acceptable risk does not trump mine. You are willing to risk the very small but very real percentage of people who might react adversely to vaccines, and I am willing to risk the very small but very real number of people my unvaccinated children might expose if they themselves get exposed.
Your "rights" do not trump mine.
No problem. Just keep the little petri dishes where they can't hand off their germs to others. Of course, if you're consistently applying the "100% safe" standard across the board, I guess they don't leave the house. They certainly don't travel by car.
No problem. Just keep the little petri dishes where they can't hand off their germs to others. Of course, if you're consistently applying the "100% safe" standard across the board, I guess they don't leave the house. They certainly don't travel by car.
No need, your kids are vaxxed up so they are 100℅ safe from my petri dishes.
Hmm, 35 iron lungs vs millions of new autistic kids in the last 25 years. Nice touch of dramatic emotional flair, but...
Yeah, see: There were a few more iron lungs that were caught in that photo. Believe it or not, but they weren't all in the same place. Crazy, I know. Polio in the US topped in the early 50s with 60,000 cases by year and about, oh, 3,000 deaths. In one year.
Also, no cohort studio has shown evidence of a vaccine/autism link.
Those who don't vaccinate should pay for the medical care required if their children or themselves become ill with the disease the vaccination would have prevented.
Quote:
"Women in the developing world know the power of [vaccines]. They will walk 10 kilometers in the heat with their child and line up to get a vaccine, because they have seen death. [Americans have] forgotten what measles deaths look like."
She added, "I'd say to the people of the United States: we're incredibly lucky to have that technology and we ought to take full advantage of it."
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