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Old 12-02-2015, 11:32 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Do you think American smokers and the obese would be willing to have their medical treatment denied?
57% of those surveyed said they didn't intend to reduce NHS-covered services.

Futhermore, FTA:

Quote:
The Conservatives said they would stop CCGs imposing such rationing. “If local health bodies stop patients from having treatments on the basis of cost alone, then we will take action against them”, said a party spokesman.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
3,826 posts, read 3,388,167 times
Reputation: 3694
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Call me crazy, but I think American health outcomes should be a higher priority than health insurer profit margins and dividend rates.

Nothing is stopping you from paying your doctor bills to the doctor and not filing a claim with your insurance company. People do is all the time with their homeowners and auto policy.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
the MEDIAN retirement savings of working americans is less then 60K.
And that $60K is in stocks and other investments. Eliminate profits and you make it impossible for many to ever even retire at all. Foolish plan.

Quote:
By far the massive numbers you provide are a "estimate" that to be honest may very well have posted the information that you go on about as a way of making a non-factually based argument look like its based on reality. ICI lobbies on behalf of investment companies.
If you dispute the $24.7 Trillion retirement assets figure, provide evidence that it's false.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:43 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,371,187 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
And that $60K is in stocks and other investments. Eliminate profits and you make it impossible for many to ever even retire at all. Foolish plan.

If you dispute the $24.7 Trillion retirement assets figure, provide evidence that it's false.
You made the statement, prove it's actually true.

But heres some quick data to consider. Population over the age of 18: 238 million (roughly)

your argument is that the average person over the age of 18 both working, or non working, has a retirement fund of $103,000

If that math works for you, boy do I have some investments I could sell you on.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
57% of those surveyed said they didn't intend to reduce NHS-covered services.
Sucks for the patients of the other 43%. So, Ill ask again... Do you think American smokers and the obese would be willing to have their medical treatment denied? The poor smoke disproportionately and have higher obesity rates. So, guess what would happen...

NHS already denies medical treatment based on one's poor lifestyle choices, this is just a further extension of what they already do.

Quote:
"...four in five NHS areas are rationing surgery and other treatments for patients with a high body mass index, while almost two in three are refusing to treat smokers."
Most NHS areas refuse surgery for obese patients - Telegraph
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:44 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsRock View Post
Nothing is stopping you from paying your doctor bills to the doctor and not filing a claim with your insurance company.
Somehow I doubt my personal choices will enact meaningful structural reforms on the American healthcare system.

but I appreciate the vote of confidence
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:45 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sucks for the patients of the other 43%.
If you think that there were only two options, you obviously didn't read your own article.
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:46 AM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,371,187 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sucks for the patients of the other 43%. So, Ill ask again... Do you think American smokers and the obese would be willing to have their medical treatment denied? The poor smoke disproportionately and have higher obesity rates. So, guess what would happen...

NHS already denies medical treatment based on one's poor lifestyle choices, this is just a further extension of what they already do.


Most NHS areas refuse surgery for obese patients - Telegraph
Fun fact. we already do here in the US.

If you smoke, or have a high BMI you are far less likely to receive many types of surgeries.

The NHS provides a immense amount of medical care, with very good results.

Boy that water never gets heavy huh?
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
You made the statement, prove it's actually true.
From the Board of Governers of the Federal Reserve System... in 2012 the total was $23.7 Trillion.

Retirement Question 4 | EBRI
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Old 12-02-2015, 11:50 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
As I recall, they kind of did think of it .... it was one of the big criticisms. But a single-payer system was taken off the table because the lobbyists for hospitals and health insurers didn't like it.
And those of us who were against it for this very reason were called racists.
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