Anti-Vaccine Parents Found Guilty In Death Of Their Toddler (problems, world, children)
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We do not have the entire trial transcript, only the snippets quoted in the news reports. Unless you have read everything that was said in court, there is no way you can say that the Hib test was not discussed. The "Health Nut News" report is quoted because that is the source the Stephan family chose to discuss the autopsy results with. I cannot conceive of a reason for the family to lie about Hib in the autopsy report if it were not there.
Asymptomatic colonization with Hib is not common. Taken together, the evidence supports bacterial meningitis, and probability favors Hib. I realize you do not want to accept that, because you treat your own children with herbs when they are sick and do not want to accept that just maybe that might not be a good idea.
True, we don't have the trial transcripts and we only can go on what has been reported in the news. The HIB thing has not been reported anywhere except for "Health Nut News" and "respectful Insolence" two sources that are not particularly trustworthy. I read what the family wrote regarding the autopsy and they didn't mention HIB so who knows. We have no clue how "health Nut News" obtained the info for their story. Did they just read what the family wrote and make extrapolations from there? Who knows. I treat my children with both conventional and alternative (herbs) medicine as warranted. You can continue to try and portray me as anti-mainstream medicine all you want but you are wrong. Nice try but you know that you are lying.
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If you read some of the articles about the former ME you will discover that the charges she makes are about administrative issues, not competence of the staff. It appears that she was claiming to have authority in aspects of the ME office that were not in her job description. She is described as being disruptive and hard to get along with.
The charges are not just related to administrative issues. Read more about the case, Suzy, that is if you actually care to understand the truth. She was disruptive to the corruption which was not want those who were corrupt wanted or needed in their Chief Medical Examiner.
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Edited to add: pneumonia often will not show on an X-ray until after the patient is adequately hydrated. Ezekiel was being given fluids with an eye dropper. He had to be about as dehydrated as a child could be. That accounts for the misleading picture on the first X-ray.
Maybe, or maybe it was due to the intubation which will also show fluid in the lungs post intubation. Either way, his lungs were clear when he arrived at the hospital.
jojan, maybe you should start a thread about all vaccines since that is clearly what you wish to discuss. The case that you posted about is not about vaccines but rather about whether or not the family sought care for their son early enough. The jury ruled that they did not. The case had nothing to do with vaccines. Even if he was not vaccinated and got HIB and his parents took him to the hospital right away, he could have been saved via antibiotics. Or what if he got the vaccine and got bacterial meningitis anyway and his parents failed to take him in on time and he died? Or what if he got HIB and his parents did take him in to the hospital immediately but the antibiotics didn't work and he died anyway? I mean, really.
The whole vaccination controversy points out the biggest flaw in libertarian ideology. The theory that we should all be free to make our own decisions. The flaw is that there is a rough, clumsy, and inefficient borderline between our freedom to make our own decisions and our freedom from the consequences of our neighbors' decisions. The more freedom we have to make our own decisions, the less freedom our neighbors have from the consequences of those decisions. And the borderline between those two opposites, is so rough and inefficient, that we're likely to waste our resources forever fighting that borderline.
What we need is a more sophisticated and enlightened compromise, that would make that borderline more efficient, and maximize both kinds of freedom. But are we too dumb to achieve that level of sophistication? Are we doomed to forever fight that borderline and consume most of our resources in that fight?
True, we don't have the trial transcripts and we only can go on what has been reported in the news. The HIB thing has not been reported anywhere except for "Health Nut News" and "respectful Insolence" two sources that are not particularly trustworthy. I read what the family wrote regarding the autopsy and they didn't mention HIB so who knows. We have no clue how "health Nut News" obtained the info for their story. Did they just read what the family wrote and make extrapolations from there? Who knows. I treat my children with both conventional and alternative (herbs) medicine as warranted. You can continue to try and portray me as anti-mainstream medicine all you want but you are wrong. Nice try but you know that you are lying.
The charges are not just related to administrative issues. Read more about the case, Suzy, that is if you actually care to understand the truth. She was disruptive to the corruption which was not want those who were corrupt wanted or needed in their Chief Medical Examiner.
Maybe, or maybe it was due to the intubation which will also show fluid in the lungs post intubation. Either way, his lungs were clear when he arrived at the hospital.
jojan, maybe you should start a thread about all vaccines since that is clearly what you wish to discuss. The case that you posted about is not about vaccines but rather about whether or not the family sought care for their son early enough. The jury ruled that they did not. The case had nothing to do with vaccines. Even if he was not vaccinated and got HIB and his parents took him to the hospital right away, he could have been saved via antibiotics. Or what if he got the vaccine and got bacterial meningitis anyway and his parents failed to take him in on time and he died? Or what if he got HIB and his parents did take him in to the hospital immediately but the antibiotics didn't work and he died anyway? I mean, really.
From previous threads we know that there are conditions that you feel do not need to be vaccinated for because you prefer to treat them with herbs, including flu and rotavirus. That, to me, indicates a preference for alternatives to medical treatment.
The family told "Health Nut News" the autopsy results. You can continue to deny it all you want to, but the information about Hib came from the family.
Dehydration can prevent pneumonia from showing up on a chest X-ray. CAT scans will find pneumonias that do not show up on X-ray, also. The ex-ME was dishonest if she testified that a chest X-ray that did not show pneumonia on admission proved that Ezekiel did not have pneumonia at that time.
My iPad still will not let me copy links. Google will lead you directly to info on the unreliability of chest X-ray in the diagnosis of pneumonia.
Since the advent of the Hib vaccine, meningitis rates in Ezekiel's age group have plummeted. Vaccinated children are extremely unlikely to get it, and the risk of death in treated cases is small, 6% or less.
The fact is that these parents refused all vaccines, never took their child to a doctor, and persisted with herbs that were obviously not helping him until he was dying. Then they called for an ambulance. None of your "what ifs" mean anything.
I dont want my immune system hurt anymore than it has been!!!
I USED TO GET VACCINES ALL THE TIME (Before I was aware) ...... Now Im suffering with an auto-immune disease I cant get rid of..
DONT TELL ME YOU THINK WE SHOULD HAVE 0 CHOICE -- YOU WANNA HURT YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM GO AHEAD... DONT SAY THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO FORCEFULLY HURT OURS!!
I am so sorry you experienced this. I could have also been immune compromised from taking steroids prescribed by doctors who were unwilling to look for the cause of my hives but just wanted to treat the symptoms with meds. Fortunately, steroids made me vomit and I stopped taking them after 24 hours. NEVER follow blindly what a doctor tells you to do, especially when you are having a reaction to what you are taking.
A Dermatologist looked for the CAUSE and did biopsies. Atopic Dermatitis. Something coming into contact with my skin was causing the hives. No need for any kind of pill, especially something as extreme as taking steriods internally. Eliminating the cause, not trying to treat the symptoms, ended the hives. No prescription medications were necessary at all.
I would rather walk around looking like a Leper than take Steroids and compromise my immune system. Good luck. Not to be rude, but would you demand that others get vaccinations just to protect immune compromised you? You know they use you as the poster child for others to get vaccinated? To a lesser extent, elderly me is too who they think they have to protect with vaccinated Herd Immunity. Get your vaccinations or you will kill an immune compromised person or the elderly!
ROLF "Cradle (Womb?) to Grave" Vaccinations. Just imagine all the vaccines that will be just as of 2016? Unborn Babies need their Flu and Tdap shots from Mama, and Zika when that comes out. 90 year old Grandpa in a Nursing Home must have his yearly Flu, Pneumonia, Shingles shots! Oh, no, he hasn't gotten his last TD vax since he was 80!!!!
Spend your entire life getting vaccinations. It will NEVER end.
ROLF "Cradle (Womb?) to Grave" Vaccinations. Just imagine all the vaccines that will be just as of 2016? Unborn Babies need their Flu and Tdap shots, and Zika when that comes out. 90 year old Grandpa in a Nursing Home must have his yearly Flu, Pneumonia, and Shingles shots! Spend your entire life getting vaccinations. It will NEVER end.
LOL. Yearly pneumonia and shingles shots? That's silly and you are silly.
From previous threads we know that there are conditions that you feel do not need to be vaccinated for because you prefer to treat them with herbs, including flu and rotavirus. That, to me, indicates a preference for alternatives to medical treatment.
Yes, I absolutely would prefer to treat flu with herbs and I did prefer to treat intestinal illness such as rotavirus with breastfeeding That does not make me anti-mainstream medicine by any means. As I've stated numerous times, I find value in both conventional and alternative health methods.
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The family told "Health Nut News" the autopsy results. You can continue to deny it all you want to, but the information about Hib came from the family.
Maybe. I read the article and from what I gathered the author of the article took info from their website and wrote an article. The conditions and the test that was used to detect bacteria were far from optimal and the ME was advised not to use the test results as any sort of proof of anything.
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Dehydration can prevent pneumonia from showing up on a chest X-ray. CAT scans will find pneumonias that do not show up on X-ray, also. The ex-ME was dishonest if she testified that a chest X-ray that did not show pneumonia on admission proved that Ezekiel did not have pneumonia at that time.
Are you saying that the ex ME lied under oath and committed perjury? Are you saying that you, a random internet poster knows more about what was in the autopsy then the former Chief ME, one of the top experts in Canada in her field?
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My iPad still will not let me copy links. Google will lead you directly to info on the unreliability of chest X-ray in the diagnosis of pneumonia.
Googled it and not finding anything on what you are claiming.
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Since the advent of the Hib vaccine, meningitis rates in Ezekiel's age group have plummeted. Vaccinated children are extremely unlikely to get it, and the risk of death in treated cases is small, 6% or less.
The fact is that these parents refused all vaccines, never took their child to a doctor, and persisted with herbs that were obviously not helping him until he was dying. Then they called for an ambulance. None of your "what ifs" mean anything.
The case was all about whether or not they took him to the doctor in a timely manner. If he did in fact have HIB then he could have been treated if they had taken him to the doctor sooner. They didn't and that is what the jury found them guilty of. The case has nothing to do with vaccines.
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