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One is rural, one is urban. Both have drug problems, and only one has gang issues that I'm aware of.
As to the gun ownership, the only data I could find was on CPL permits and it is a few years old.
Roscommon, ranks 13th out of 83 counties and is the rural area I am talking about.
Wayne county, ranks 45th our of the same 83 and is where Detroit is located.
I have no agenda other than calling out what is obvious.
Do tell, "what is obvious?"
That certain areas experience more or less gun violence not necessarily in direct correlation with rates of gun ownership? Yes, that's obvious.
The question is why the violence with guns where it is found and how to reduce it, right?
As to causation, one very important aspect of this problem to get right, there is plenty to consider here that goes well beyond the demographics of your particular neighborhood one way or the other...
Schools of thought
The relationship between race and crime has been an area of study for criminologists since the emergence of anthropological criminology in the late 19th century.
Sociologist Orlando Patterson has explained these controversies as disputes between liberal and conservative criminologists in which each camp focuses on mutually exclusive aspects of the causal net, with liberals focusing on factors external to the groups in question and conservatives focusing on internal cultural and behavioral factors.
That certain areas experience more or less gun violence not necessarily in direct correlation with rates of gun ownership? Yes, that's obvious.
The question is why the violence with guns where it is found and how to reduce it, right?
As to causation, one very important aspect of this problem to get right, there is plenty to consider here that goes well beyond the demographics of your particular neighborhood one way or the other...
Schools of thought
The relationship between race and crime has been an area of study for criminologists since the emergence of anthropological criminology in the late 19th century.
Sociologist Orlando Patterson has explained these controversies as disputes between liberal and conservative criminologists in which each camp focuses on mutually exclusive aspects of the causal net, with liberals focusing on factors external to the groups in question and conservatives focusing on internal cultural and behavioral factors.
Originally Posted by Floorist My community is overall very poor. What jobs are here are mostly minimum wage, but we have very little violence. One murder in the last seven years, for example. There is a drug problem, like everywhere these days. There is a high rate of gun ownership. Open and conceal carry are both legal. The only thing I see is that the population is mostly white. 20 miles from here is a very similar community, mostly black that also has little violence and high gun ownership. And a drug problem. Both cities are alike in most ways except the color of the residents.
Don't know why, but I just thought that it was interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
"Reading between the lines" if not simply understanding what you are getting at, you feel the problem is black people. Close?
Reading between the lines, both communities are similar in gun ownership, drug use, and crime despite the difference in race. IOW, race makes no difference in the level of crime in Floorist's anecdote. Nor does gun ownership. Nor does drug use.
But I'd suspect neither community has a problem with gang activity.
I do agree with you on the parenting...or lack of it. When high school kids are having children, leaving those children to be raised by grandma (who is only 28) and the cycle keeps repeating itself , along with no fathers present, throw in a dose of entitlement (from a generation or three of welfare living) , top that with our Democrat politicians ignoring this and it is a recipe for disaster.
Seems we were almost getting to a point of agreement up to that rather slanted version of what Democrats ignore...
Liberal or conservative, I don't think either necessarily ignores the obvious. Again the question and/or differences lie with regard to causation and what to do about it. What happens if what you describe as "entitlement" is withdrawn altogether for example?
We may never know for sure, because we have come a long way since the days of simply letting people/children live in abject poverty without public involvement, but needless to say, it seems conservatives think the problems as you describe suddenly disappear if we simply let people fend for themselves regardless their lot in life.
Whether that's the recipe for success or more like going backwards and making matters worse, I haven't the time today to further consider, but I doubt the answer either way is all one way or the other. I also think it is the conservatives that tend to lean toward ignoring reality in these regards more than liberals, in part why the GOP is coming apart at the seams...
And no one has a solution, at least not at this point.
I like to look at the cause and reason there is a 2nd amendment in the first place, then you have the answer to the cause of gun deaths.
Those that wish to oppress another, find out quick, they may be the last words or actions they do on this earth.
I personally can only be oppressed by someone with a gun. Unarmed people cannot say the same.
No I don't think the problem is black people. I have black friends. I was just thinking that it is odd. I feel safe in either community. Part of it may be history, my town was on the South's side in the civil war, the other town was on the North's side. But the two populations have never mixed much.
I suspect two factors contribute to very little violence. I notice most of the violence related to Blacks occurs in urban areas and now inner ring suburbs. Rural areas aren't nearly as violent. And then I wonder this. Do the residents in that predominantly Black town all know each other? Are the families intact?
That certain areas experience more or less gun violence not necessarily in direct correlation with rates of gun ownership? Yes, that's obvious.
The question is why the violence with guns where it is found and how to reduce it, right?
As to causation, one very important aspect of this problem to get right, there is plenty to consider here that goes well beyond the demographics of your particular neighborhood one way or the other...
Schools of thought
The relationship between race and crime has been an area of study for criminologists since the emergence of anthropological criminology in the late 19th century.
Sociologist Orlando Patterson has explained these controversies as disputes between liberal and conservative criminologists in which each camp focuses on mutually exclusive aspects of the causal net, with liberals focusing on factors external to the groups in question and conservatives focusing on internal cultural and behavioral factors.
What is obvious is there is a cultural (for lack of a better term) problem within the black community. Young teens generally between the ages of 14 to 25 are not developing any kind of empathy for human life, they can't argue without resorting to violence. That is the problem. Not guns, not knives, etc. Why is violence the first thing they turn to ? Violence as a whole across our country is declining , except for this certain demographic which is a smaller percentage of a small percentage of our population. Until this can be addressed without being called a racist , a bigot or whatever , the root cause will never be found.
Gun violence could be reduced without infringing on rights, without bans, etc...but the left don't want to listen. It would take some years but it could be done.
5. get the nuts off the streets. prevent nuts from purchasing or acquiring guns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
Your link doesn't work for me so I'll throw out my opinion.
1. Better education for everyone. We as a society need to teach people that violence isn't the first means of resolution to a problem. We also need to teach tolerance. It's too easy and too commonplace for someone who doesn't like a person's choices to stand against them. This starts in the home from a young age.
2. Less media coverage. The media sensationalizes gun violence and violence in general. This becomes appealing to aggressive youth and they soak up the media coverage like a sponge without yet being able to form their own thoughts and opinions.
3. Required gun safety courses. Just as we are required to take a driving test to get a license, we should be required to take a gun safety course before being allowed to purchase a firearm. Being caught without this li
4. Hold people accountable for their actions. Enough with the PC baloney. If you commit a crime, regardless of your race, political stance, gender, or religion you should be held accountable. I would recommend mandatory counseling and psychological treatment for those who commit crimes to try and get to the root cause of what sparked those actions to prevent future reoccurrences. If deemed psychologically unfit to own a firearm, the person would be denied legal means of obtaining one.
5. get the nuts off the streets. prevent nuts from purchasing or acquiring guns.
Except for one thing. Alot of those nuts will find illegal means to get guns, such as smuggling. Jamaica has this problem. I've pointed it out over and over. No one listens.
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