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So what she is not in history books, to me, she is worth discussing. Maybe it is you who should take your own advice of "letting it go."
Why is she worth discussing all these decades later. I have nothing to let go, you seem to do. I'd rather talk about her show with Lily Tomlin. It's really good.
Why is she worth discussing all these decades later. I have nothing to let go, you seem to do. I'd rather talk about her show with Lily Tomlin. It's really good.
Then you were ignorant of the history that you were speaking on and should just move on rather than blowing it off, changing goal posts, and acting indifferent to factual errors on your part.
Fact is: (1) an honest and informed person wouldn't start it with Ike, (2) would admit that North Vietnamese propaganda against the US AND South Vietnam had BS in it, and (3) would admit that the US also used poor reasoning to justify its involvement.
I have done all of the above. Just because the US didn't have good justification to be there doesn't mean you should push BS reasoning yourself.
I'll blow you off whenever the hell I feel like it. I know more about the Vietnam war in the morning than you know in a lifetime. Please...you're the one talking about the United States not having colonial intentions on South Vietnam. You're either naive or a fool. Pick one. Or perhaps you're just being dishonest...which in your case is easier to believe.
And really, WHO CARES about North Vietnamese propaganda against the United States? That's just More irrelevant b.s. by the likes of war apologists like yourself. If someone has invaded your country, you use whatever means necessary to get them to leave. If that includes propaganda, then so be it. There's no FAIR or decent way to make an interloper leave your land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
So Red China and the Soviets our sworn enemies supplying Vietnam did it out of their hearts, they had no intentions of expanding communist rule in Asia and Europe?
That's meaningless. Vietnam is 8500 miles from the United States. Soviet or Chinese designs on their own continent are none of our concern.
We pushed around a whole bunch of nations in our hemisphere, to the detriment of their citizens. Ask Chile or Guatemala about it. They'll tell you.
war is war and screwing up and mistakes will happen.....go look WW2 and the mistakes we made and it cost a lot more than just 22k.
I don't kiss a$$, I understand that war is complicated and there are no easy solutions.
We drew a line that the Communist North didn't respect and were constantly crossing and being hostile......maybe he could have saved 22k soldiers if we just SURRENDER and gave them South Vietnam and then what, what's next South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Europe? what kind of message that would have sent to our enemies in the Cold War if we weren't willing to fight every time they cross the line.
You can play MONDAY QB all you want but there weren't any good choices at the time unless surrender was your choice.
Who in the hell are we to draw a line 8500 miles from the United States?
And to your point, we DID surrender and just hand them the South. Did the sky fall? Did Americans miss one less meal or lose on extra hour of sleep?
Didn't John McCain come out in support of her? I guess if he can forgive her I certainly can.
McCain has become a feckless eunuch having served as a politician all these years.
Once a communist loving traitor, always one. I will never put a dime in Fonda's pocket, and still boycott Toshiba products, even when they are much cheaper than other brands.
Who in the hell are we to draw a line 8500 miles from the United States?
And to your point, we DID surrender and just hand them the South. Did the sky fall? Did Americans miss one less meal or lose on extra hour of sleep?
No.
Who the hell are we? the victors of WW2 and we drew the lines,,,,,the other option is to lose the war and have others draw the lines for us and be at their mercy .....which one you rather choose?
WE drew it after WW 2....try to stay focus....this mess didn't start in 1965.....the lines were drawn in 1945 thanks to a WW that we didn't start but we sure finished it and we spent a lot of blood and revenues to rebuild the world and prevent WW3.
You just don't get how foreign policy is played out ....it's a chess game, not Chinese Checkers......We gave up South Vietnam in 1975 after Nixon open relations to China in 1971 and China and the Soviets became foes in the 70's. That's a gain to the ultimate goal: win the Cold War.
We made the point to our enemies that we are willing to fight and make sure your side loses 10 times the casualties compare to our casualties and and bomb the shiat out of your country and allies
That's how we won the Cold War by not backing down and picking our spots and making our enemies guess during the Cold War and letting them know what we were willing to do and how far we would go.
Vietnam was part of the Cold War.....We hoped it would have ended like South Korea but it didn't but we sure got China to open relations with us and avoid a war with them and just focus on the Soviets which we did and the Soviets today no longer exist.
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