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LoCo? Loudoun County? The richest county in America? And Herndon? Another wealthy suburb? These are your examples of a "national emergency"? Jesus Christ! Why am I wasting my time trying to have a rational discussion with you?
I see the issue. Herndon has "changed" but it's the kind of change that's almost inevitable. You'll see this pattern in many US cities - pockets of poverty that used to be associated with inner cities are now found in exurban areas.
With explosive development and skyrocketing housing costs there *are* areas of often older housing that increasingly attract relatively low income residents - some of whom may well be illegal immigrants. Inner city residents have been displaced with gentrification. The working classes and middle classes find housing costs increasingly hard to manage in the closer-in suburbs. The lower-income who have been displaced from these areas have migrated to the outer counties. There may well be more sharing of housing to manage costs.
Appearances can be deceptive. What may appear to be older lower-cost housing that's close-in (garden apartments that are 50 to 70 years old) are, in fact, occupied by the upwardly mobile, many of whom are first-generation Americans. Stable and low crime. Conversely, 30 yo townhouse communities situated many miles out that were once "brand-new" and prized as starter homes may well now be crime-ridden with drugs an issue. The crime has moved outward. (This is one of the reasons Manhattan has become so safe.)
I see the issue. Herndon has "changed" but it's the kind of change that's almost inevitable. You'll see this pattern in many US cities - pockets of poverty that used to be associated with inner cities are now found in exurban areas.
With explosive development and skyrocketing housing costs there *are* areas of often older housing that increasingly attract relatively low income residents - some of whom may well be illegal immigrants. Inner city residents have been displaced with gentrification. The working classes and middle classes find housing costs increasingly hard to manage in the closer-in suburbs. The lower-income who have been displaced from these areas have migrated to the outer counties. There may well be more sharing of housing to manage costs.
Appearances can be deceptive. What may appear to be older lower-cost housing that's close-in (garden apartments that are 50 to 70 years old) are, in fact, occupied by the upwardly mobile, many of whom are first-generation Americans. Stable and low crime. Conversely, 30 yo townhouse communities situated many miles out that were once "brand-new" and prized as starter homes may well now be crime-ridden with drugs an issue. The crime has moved outward. (This is one of the reasons Manhattan has become so safe.)
All well and good --- but...it isn't just one family in these houses. Most are flophouses---some with 20 or more people in them. Flophouses attract illegals. The conditions in them are deplorable. Many of these older homes only have one bathroom. Do you know what becomes the second bathroom? Answer---the backyard. Also, in these older communities that have been destroyed by illegals, there are no HOAs and each home is responsible for arranging trash pick-up. There have been illegals who just piled up their trash in the backyard. We lived in an HOA community and briefly had a flophouse. Even with paid for and scheduled trash pick-up, we never saw trash being put out for pick-up. Someone on the HOA board investigated and discovered bags of trash piled up in the backyard.
That's why at some shopping centers one sees day laborers loitering around for hours. These are illegals who didn't get day labor. They often can't go back to the flophouses because, in some places they are sleeping in shifts. If not, it's not like they have a place to hang out because the living room is being used as a bedroom.
There was a time in older communities, these homes were almost always occupied by one family. Now we're seeing newer townhouses with illegal apartments in their basements. Newer townhouse communities only have 2 1/2 spots per house. So, all of the overflow parking goes into other neighborhoods. If you read post #898, you will know what I'm talking about.
When we sold our house in order to downsize, our next door neighbors expressed concern over who would be buying our house. Those neighbors were legal Asian immigrants. I point that out before someone cries "racism". We told them that we understood and that if we had more than one offer, we would take the time to learn about the potential buyers. In the end, a single young man bought it. Our former neighbors told us that he is a quiet neighbor. We were glad to hear that.
This type of change you speak of is not "inevitable". Illegals have no business being here and due to uncontrolled illegal immigration, neighborhoods and schools are being destroyed.
When Herndon gets the Metro station, housing nearby will most likely increase in value. Those who are renting out their homes may well decide to cash out, thus pushing out the flophouses. So, there is some hope that destroyed neighborhoods can be reclaimed.
So...you live in NoVA --- and let me guess --- you live somewhere far removed from the flophouses and deteriorating schools. Am I correct?
LoCo? Loudoun County? The richest county in America? And Herndon? Another wealthy suburb? These are your examples of a "national emergency"? Jesus Christ! Why am I wasting my time trying to have a rational discussion with you?
Oh good grief
Another one who thinks that the richest county in the US has no poor people or bad areas. What's with you people? You're not the first one to claim that I must be a liar. And, like the others, you are wrong. You would be surprised at the number of food banks in LoCo. The Good Shepherd Alliance is dedicated to helping the local homeless and runs a shelter where they help people get back on their feet again.
And, BTW, Herndon isn't entirely a "wealthy" community. You are out of touch if you think otherwise.
Yes, what illegals have done to some areas is a "national emergency". Do you think illegals don't cost money? Who do you think pays for it when they birth an anchor baby? Answer: the taxpayers. Who do you think pays for it when said anchor babies come to school not knowing a word of English and the Spanish they do speak is atrocious. They don't know colors, for example, and can't tell red from blue. Answer: the taxpayers. Who do you think pays for it every time they get sick and go to the ER? Answer: the taxpayers. Who do you think pays for it when more police officers have to get hired? Answer: The taxpayers.
I'm making an effort to have "a rational discussion with you". You, however, refuse to believe what I say---and this is on the basis of you never experiencing any of this. You think if you don't see it, it can't possibly exist.
Well, good to know you're not going to respond again
Are you actually interested in a rational conversation when it comes to the open borders catch and release policies?
I've yet to find pro-illegal-immigrant posters
There are over 30k flooding the southern border every month!!!
FACT: you live in a reality of your own. You only believe things you wish were true, not what is actually true.
White and upper middle class by any chance? Live in the burbs in a nice cozy bubble?
The best measure of how many illegals are crossing the border is the number of arrests. The high was in 2000 with 1.64 million. In the 2017 the number was 303,916. A steep decline. Still too high? Sure. A "national emergency"? Nah. And me "pro-illegal-immigrant"? Nope. But I know a "national emergency" or a "crisis" when I see one and this ain't it.
What is the " open borders catch and release policies" ?
I've covered this many times already.
Courts have ruled that children cannot be separated from parents, and that children cannot be detained more than 20 days, so the only way to comply is to release the parents with the children. Ten years ago, family units made up about 10% of apprehensions, now it is around 50%.
Furthermore, every illegal has learned that crying Asylum is covered under a different law and bypasses the usual law. Courts have ruled that a person that requests asylum cannot be deported pending resolution of case. Cases are taking a year or more.
And it's a simple matter of logistics. We only have so many beds in detention centers. We can't make them sleep on the floor. We released 1000 migrants on Christmas Eve because detention centers were full and we didn't have beds for new detainees.
All well and good --- but...it isn't just one family in these houses. Most are flophouses---some with 20 or more people in them. Flophouses attract illegals. The conditions in them are deplorable. Many of these older homes only have one bathroom. Do you know what becomes the second bathroom? Answer---the backyard. Also, in these older communities that have been destroyed by illegals, there are no HOAs and each home is responsible for arranging trash pick-up. There have been illegals who just piled up their trash in the backyard. We lived in an HOA community and briefly had a flophouse. Even with paid for and scheduled trash pick-up, we never saw trash being put out for pick-up. Someone on the HOA board investigated and discovered bags of trash piled up in the backyard.
That's why at some shopping centers one sees day laborers loitering around for hours. These are illegals who didn't get day labor. They often can't go back to the flophouses because, in some places they are sleeping in shifts. If not, it's not like they have a place to hang out because the living room is being used as a bedroom.
There was a time in older communities, these homes were almost always occupied by one family. Now we're seeing newer townhouses with illegal apartments in their basements. Newer townhouse communities only have 2 1/2 spots per house. So, all of the overflow parking goes into other neighborhoods. If you read post #898, you will know what I'm talking about.
When we sold our house in order to downsize, our next door neighbors expressed concern over who would be buying our house. Those neighbors were legal Asian immigrants. I point that out before someone cries "racism". We told them that we understood and that if we had more than one offer, we would take the time to learn about the potential buyers. In the end, a single young man bought it. Our former neighbors told us that he is a quiet neighbor. We were glad to hear that.
This type of change you speak of is not "inevitable". Illegals have no business being here and due to uncontrolled illegal immigration, neighborhoods and schools are being destroyed.
When Herndon gets the Metro station, housing nearby will most likely increase in value. Those who are renting out their homes may well decide to cash out, thus pushing out the flophouses. So, there is some hope that destroyed neighborhoods can be reclaimed.
So...you live in NoVA --- and let me guess --- you live somewhere far removed from the flophouses and deteriorating schools. Am I correct?
Bos2iad, it's been said that no one's opinion has ever been changed on this forums but it is your posts that have influenced (me) to where I find chain immigration problematic. I'd always assumed you were speaking of an area that was completely outside my experience-set, perhaps a town somewhere in California that had changed beyond recognition. Even though I did not define myself as negatively impacted by immigration (visually can't easily distinguish between legal and illegal) that other Americans were resonated. Your views counted.
How interesting to find we're almost neighbors. Almost, but not quite for, yes, I live very close-in right on the "line" between an extremely affluent area and neighborhoods that are occupied by immigrant communities (Korean, Latino, Ethiopian). There is crowding, but these are not pockets of poverty so there is not the kind of dysfunction that you describe.
I have lived in those pockets, though - right next to one of those flophouses, actually. (We installed massive soundproofing on the shared brick walls between the row houses). And I always made sure to greet the drug dealers with respect. Now former flophouses in places like Adams-Morgan have morphed into multi-million dollar homes. There's been massive change.
That's not to say that I could not find negative experiences today. Our school taxes certainly fund massive ESOL programs and have not always provided the services *we* need. We live "urban," utilize public transportation, there is crime - with much of it committed by men with Latino-sounding names. Not right where we live, but close enough to where I meet my daughter to walk her the last block or so home at night. To remain this close-in, we live much "smaller" than many Americans might choose.
The "problems" I've just accepted as part of urban living. That said, I can appreciate that had we chosen differently - sought a quieter, more rural lifestyle then had the issues imposed onto us that my reaction might be different.
Last edited by EveryLady; 01-08-2019 at 07:18 PM..
Bos2iad, it's been said that no one's opinion has ever been changed on this forums but it is your posts that have influenced (me) to where I find chain immigration problematic.
That's refreshing to hear. To change one's opinion is viewed so negatively in our society. You flip flopped. You're wishy washy. So long as it's due to additional facts and analysis and not who is buttering your bread, it should be considered as noble.
We debate issues and cover our talking points, not because we expect anyone to do a 180 but in order to plant a seed for additional thought. No one will capitulate. But maybe they will think about it later. I myself have thought further in response to adversarial points and I know some of my views have changed over the years as a result of those thoughts.
The Republicans controlled the government for 2 years all branches of government through Reconciliation why didn't they fund Trumps vanity wall?
The Dems offered to give Donnie 25 billion in exchange for extending the Dreamer program so what gives? What incentive do Democrats have to fund Donnies Vanity wall if the Republicans refused to do so?
Why didn't the Republicans in Congress? Because they're just as corrupt and perverse and the Democrats. Both parties are elitists pricks who want cheaper maid service and yard work crews. They are owned by companies who want to pay workers less money. Illegal immigration is in the best interests of all of them, but none of them would dare admit to it. Dems want more votes and a slave labor working class. Republicans also want a slave labor working class.
Regular ole Americans are trying to fund the thing: https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall I expect that the Democrats will find a way to not let it happen though.
The incentive is that whatever government functions that were shut down get reactivated. Perhaps they really are unnecessary.
They either have to deal with the President or offer something to enough Republicans to override any Presidential veto just as the system was designed
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Am I correct?
