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Old 07-10-2019, 01:49 PM
 
50,819 posts, read 26,822,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
You are a piece of work.
I am not sure I have ever interacted with someone so myopic and racially warped in their thinking.

So the words of a black male to others (including white people) is ok, but not for a white person to give the same advice to you?
Anyone can give sound advice to others regardless of race and gender, but in your sad little world, the race of the person is paramount above all else.
I'd also note I never claimed to be better in any way to you, yet you claim I am not on your level.
What do you mean by that, whether it be above or below "my level"?

As to SA, rest assured others can read you being obtuse at best, dishonest at worst.
I didn't create the documentary, write the NYT articles, make up stories about death and mayhem occurring. Yet you pretend since I am bringing that to you attention, it is somehow untrue?
Must it be a fellow black male otherwise you do not accept it?
Please, don't insult everyones intelligence.

As to "whites on the losing side", I didn't agree with the Afrikaners form of government, and that was blacks on the losing side if you want to put it in those terms.
Presumably blacks could have been capable of co-existing with whites without apartheid.
Then again, the way things are turning out now, maybe that is not possible.

Regardless, one can see injustice regardless of race. Attempted genocide by whites against other whites is wrong, just as it is with blacks against other blacks.
What happened with the Tutsi vs. the Hutu was especially sickening. Not because of the color of their skin, but because of the heinous brutality by chopping up living human beings. Even worse was the pictures of young boys with bloody machetes in their hand. What type of human beings are they going to be like as adults, if they are capable of such inhumanity at such a young age.

Open your eyes and your heart before it is too late, as you seem on a wrong path.
Since one of the few things we have in common might be an appreciation of movie Ben Hur, never forget the most powerful aspect of the story, when after all the injustice he had been put through, he said " I felt His voice take the sword out of my hand".


`
There you go dispensing silly ass advice again instead of playing your position.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:24 PM
 
9,389 posts, read 4,308,270 times
Reputation: 11060
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
And would all of this be to curtail all violence, or just the small percentage that is against whites?

Out of all the stats I've found, it seems there haven't been more than 200 farm murders in a single year, usually under 100. More people than that get murdered each week in South Africa in non-farm murders. It just seems weird to me how worried some people are about a small fraction of the murders there with little or no mention of the fact that the overall murder rate is astronomical, with the farm murders making up a very small amount of that.


Why not ask your question (assuming you were serious) in relation to when the white government was in charge, and we and many other countries helped to stop the practice of apartheid. Did we also insist all violence be curtailed?
See how nonsensical the question is?

We and other countries got involved because racial prejudice and discrimination was involved. Blacks were not being thrown off the land they owned as official policy by the white government. The government was not turning a blind eye to blacks being killed if they refused to leave their property.
So as abhorrent as we felt for the injustice against blacks in SA, the situation was not one of blacks being killed if they refused to give up their homes/property.

As to you comment about the overall high murder rate in SA, if we are going to worry about astronomical crime related murder rates, we should focus on our own murder rates in places like Chicago, Baltimore, etc.
but just as racial injustice toward blacks in SA drew our attention, so should racial injustice against whites in SA draw our attention.
Especially since we had a hand in creating the present situation.


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Old 07-10-2019, 08:26 PM
 
9,389 posts, read 4,308,270 times
Reputation: 11060
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
There you go dispensing silly ass advice again instead of playing your position.
I guess some of your comments make sense to you, but "playing my position" does not compute for most of us to understand.


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Old 07-11-2019, 08:55 AM
 
9,389 posts, read 4,308,270 times
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Undoubtedly more fake news about this non-existent problem;

A South African farmer activist who spoke out against brutal attacks on the the country's white farmers has been found dead, beaten to death with a hammer

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ratic-alliance


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Old 07-11-2019, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
670 posts, read 200,566 times
Reputation: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Why not ask your question (assuming you were serious) in relation to when the white government was in charge, and we and many other countries helped to stop the practice of apartheid.
Because this post is about the current farm murders and it is very inaccurately being called a genocide, right in the thread title.

Quote:
Did we also insist all violence be curtailed?
No, it was about the segregationist form of government. This thread topic is specifically about a small fraction of the murders being elevated as a genocide alarm.
Quote:
See how nonsensical the question is?
For the reasons above, no.

Quote:
We and other countries got involved because racial prejudice and discrimination was involved. Blacks were not being thrown off the land they owned as official policy by the white government. The government was not turning a blind eye to blacks being killed if they refused to leave their property.
So as abhorrent as we felt for the injustice against blacks in SA, the situation was not one of blacks being killed if they refused to give up their homes/property.
You phrase this as though apartheid was just a time of separation where blacks were treated respectfully. They were mowed down by police with machine guns in the Sharpeville massacre of 1960, which jump started the rise in violence overall. No need to pretend it was a nice, nonviolent system for blacks.


Quote:
As to you comment about the overall high murder rate in SA, if we are going to worry about astronomical crime related murder rates, we should focus on our own murder rates in places like Chicago, Baltimore, etc.
Well, yes, we agree. That said the murder rate in those cities is relatively low compared to SA as a whole. The farm murder rate is downright tiny in comparison.

Quote:
just as racial injustice toward blacks in SA drew our attention, so should racial injustice against whites in SA draw our attention.
Especially since we had a hand in creating the present situation.
The number of white people murdered per year about .5% and black farm workers are frequently murdered along with the white farm owners.
Non-whites make up over 99% of those murdered in the country annually. The rhetoric about the farm murders would make one think the black population has banded against all whites and are trying to eliminate them. The truth is the country is incredibly violent for anyone living there regardless of color. Why would someone be so laser focused on less than 1% of the murders and call it genocide like the thread title?
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:29 PM
 
9,389 posts, read 4,308,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
Because this post is about the current farm murders and it is very inaccurately being called a genocide, right in the thread title.

No, it was about the segregationist form of government. This thread topic is specifically about a small fraction of the murders being elevated as a genocide alarm.

For the reasons above, no.

So you would rather lock in on the one word we agree is an exaggeration(thus far), and not address the current racial hatred and violence going on?

It sounds like a deflection based on semantics, rather than a genuine willingness to discuss and condemn the obvious racism occurring.


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Old 07-11-2019, 03:34 PM
 
9,389 posts, read 4,308,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
The number of white people murdered per year about .5% and black farm workers are frequently murdered along with the white farm owners.
Non-whites make up over 99% of those murdered in the country annually. The rhetoric about the farm murders would make one think the black population has banded against all whites and are trying to eliminate them. The truth is the country is incredibly violent for anyone living there regardless of color. Why would someone be so laser focused on less than 1% of the murders and call it genocide like the thread title?
I forgot to address this part of your post.

Are the blacks being killed by fellow black racially motivated?

If not, then it does make a difference. Just as blacks being discriminated against with apartheid via the white government drew our attention to make a change, so too should violence against whites based on race.

On a semi-related aspect of this (not saying apartheid was better), but were murder rates among all people in SA higher or lower when the whites were in control of the government?

I ask this question because you know in this country 100 black people might die in black on black violence in a place like Chicago over the weekend, and the news media and liberals/leftists could not give a flip.
But allow one black person to be killed or harmed by a white person (with suspicion of racial motivation), and all hell break lose. You know Sharpton and Jackson will be cashing in their frequent flyer miles to get to the location to demand "justice".
Yet black on black killings are totally ignored by the liberal MSM and so called advocates for black people.

`


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Old 07-11-2019, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Federal Way, WA
670 posts, read 200,566 times
Reputation: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
Are the blacks being killed by fellow black racially motivated?
No. But the evidence for racial motivation for farm murders is not solid, as police do not record race in their statistics. They also don't note if the person killed was the owner, a worker, etc. Large commercial farms are typically owned by whites, smaller farms may be owned by either. Attacks happen at both. Theft is also part of most attacks, obviously a primary motivation.

Quote:
If not, then it does make a difference. Just as blacks being discriminated against with apartheid via the white government drew our attention to make a change, so too should violence against whites based on race.
You are talking millions and millions that were irrefutably being heavily discriminated against vs. hundreds with no clear evidence that race is the motivating factor for all of them, only select cases that have been heavily publicized so people will assume that all of the attacks are the same motivation.

Quote:
On a semi-related aspect of this (not saying apartheid was better), but were murder rates among all people in SA higher or lower when the whites were in control of the government?
Murder rate was cut in half from 1994 to 2009, then it began climbing but still hasn't reached its 1993 peak, when apartheid was still in place.

Quote:
I ask this question because you know in this country 100 black people might die in black on black violence in a place like Chicago over the weekend, and the news media and liberals/leftists could not give a flip.
Actually, a high murder weekend in Chicago means around 10-12 people were murdered. The total number of murders last year was 561, which was 100 less than 2017, so yes, people are working on that here and it does get covered by the MSM regularly.

Quote:
But allow one black person to be killed or harmed by a white person (with suspicion of racial motivation), and all hell break lose. You know Sharpton and Jackson will be cashing in their frequent flyer miles to get to the location to demand "justice".
This is what it boils down to. A lot of white people are triggered by the idea that black people sometimes murder white people with racial motivation. Because some SA farm murders clearly have racial motivations, it is a trigger to believe the blacks are taking over and killing whites at an alarming rate, which isn't what is happening.


Quote:
Yet black on black killings are totally ignored by the liberal MSM and so called advocates for black people.
I see stories about Chicago violence regularly from MSM sources and black advocates talking about what to do. Not only are they talking about it, but since murder rates in Chicago have gone down 2 years straight, it appears to be working.
Just type "Chicago violence" in to google and you will see plenty of the MSM covering a particularly violent weekend in June this year when 52 were shot and 10 died. Its being covered by CNN, ABC, NBC, USA Today, etc.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
3,511 posts, read 1,711,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFit View Post
No. But the evidence for racial motivation for farm murders is not solid, as police do not record race in their statistics. They also don't note if the person killed was the owner, a worker, etc. Large commercial farms are typically owned by whites, smaller farms may be owned by either. Attacks happen at both. Theft is also part of most attacks, obviously a primary motivation.


You are talking millions and millions that were irrefutably being heavily discriminated against vs. hundreds with no clear evidence that race is the motivating factor for all of them, only select cases that have been heavily publicized so people will assume that all of the attacks are the same motivation.



Murder rate was cut in half from 1994 to 2009, then it began climbing but still hasn't reached its 1993 peak, when apartheid was still in place.


Actually, a high murder weekend in Chicago means around 10-12 people were murdered. The total number of murders last year was 561, which was 100 less than 2017, so yes, people are working on that here and it does get covered by the MSM regularly.

This is what it boils down to. A lot of white people are triggered by the idea that black people sometimes murder white people with racial motivation. Because some SA farm murders clearly have racial motivations, it is a trigger to believe the blacks are taking over and killing whites at an alarming rate, which isn't what is happening.



I see stories about Chicago violence regularly from MSM sources and black advocates talking about what to do. Not only are they talking about it, but since murder rates in Chicago have gone down 2 years straight, it appears to be working.
Just type "Chicago violence" in to google and you will see plenty of the MSM covering a particularly violent weekend in June this year when 52 were shot and 10 died. Its being covered by CNN, ABC, NBC, USA Today, etc.
Great post. Also want thing I want to say the most murderous province is one of the least black in the country and by far the safest province is the blackest at 90%+ Limpopo is the only part of South Africa who’s murder rate is near the African average of 10 per 100,000 (which is actually lower if you take out South Africa). My point is SA isn’t as simple as Black vs White. Their are Kimberly’s minorities as well as foreigners that make it a rainbow nation. Not everything is a black and white issue pun intended. Their are lots of grays in the populace and within the criminality of SA.

For example white farmers are murdered at three times the national rate. The most dangerous neighborhoods in SA often outer neighborhoods of major cities have dates as high as 7 times the national rate and almost all of them have rates that are the same or higher than a white farmer. Also the white farmer rate isn’t as high as it’s reported because no one knows how many farmers their are in a country like SA defining the word (farm) is very hard and defining populations you can end up with everything from 90% of the population is white (so farm murders would actually effect black people disproportionally. To 15% white. If you count only the large farmsand their owners vs if you count all the “farms” and include the workers who live nearby or on the farm.

South Africa have tons of black ethnic groups tons of foreigners from all parts of Africa and Asia (massive Chinese population) various Asian ethnic groups Malays, Indians. Indigenous South Africans like Khoisan and their descendant sure and distantly related groups. Cape Coloureds who are a mix of all the above.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,797 posts, read 4,457,698 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Great post. Also want thing I want to say the most murderous province is one of the least black in the country and by far the safest province is the blackest at 90%+ Limpopo is the only part of South Africa who’s murder rate is near the African average of 10 per 100,000 (which is actually lower if you take out South Africa). My point is SA isn’t as simple as Black vs White. Their are Kimberly’s minorities as well as foreigners that make it a rainbow nation. Not everything is a black and white issue pun intended. Their are lots of grays in the populace and within the criminality of SA.

For example white farmers are murdered at three times the national rate. The most dangerous neighborhoods in SA often outer neighborhoods of major cities have dates as high as 7 times the national rate and almost all of them have rates that are the same or higher than a white farmer. Also the white farmer rate isn’t as high as it’s reported because no one knows how many farmers their are in a country like SA defining the word (farm) is very hard and defining populations you can end up with everything from 90% of the population is white (so farm murders would actually effect black people disproportionally. To 15% white. If you count only the large farmsand their owners vs if you count all the “farms” and include the workers who live nearby or on the farm.

South Africa have tons of black ethnic groups tons of foreigners from all parts of Africa and Asia (massive Chinese population) various Asian ethnic groups Malays, Indians. Indigenous South Africans like Khoisan and their descendant sure and distantly related groups. Cape Coloureds who are a mix of all the above.
I don't know where you or any of the posters who are reporting stats are getting their information as no one will report their sources ... my research indicated that the police stopped keeping official stats and the only way to get the stats on the farm murders is through their department of agriculture who is unable to provide statistics in a timely manner.


Two interesting news reports:


South Africa’s white farmers reportedly being murdered & tortured off their land
"Berdus and his 51-year old partner Estelle Nieuwenhuys have been raided in the Limpopo province. The farmer has three bullet wounds - two through his shoulder and one through his face that came out the back of his neck."


Calls to ‘kill the Boer’ make all farmers targets, not just whites – South African official
“That is not the stance of our government... by the way if it is ‘kill the Boer, kill the farmer,’ it’s killing me, because I am the Boer,” said Mlengana, as quoted by News24 TV channel. “Boer means farmer… When they say kill the Boers, they are not just talking about whites, they are talking about farmers,” Mlengana said.


Adding link: Accurate statistics are needed for the SA farm murder debate

"The lack of government statistics on farm attacks and murders makes it hard to clearly define the extent of the problem. This can largely be blamed on the decision by the South African Police Service (SAPS) to cease publishing statistics on this phenomenon in 2006/7. Then in 2014, the SAPS made a submission to the SA Human Rights Commission hearings on safety in farming communities on farm attacks. Earlier this year, in reply to a question in Parliament, they also released the statistics for 2016/17 which revealed that for some undisclosed reason, while they have the data, they’re not releasing it regularly."


PS: That makes any comparison any one wants to make, mute.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 07-12-2019 at 08:51 AM..
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