why do so many people choose to be poor? (banks, Texas, poverty)

[jtur88]

Originally Posted by Amaznjohn

My I ask what you are trying to do to better your financial condition?

Nothing. I have more money than I need. Which is damned little, but enough.

There is nothing ANYbody can do to better their financial condition. except take somebody else's money. There is a finite amount of money. You can't create any more, you can only take somebody else's.

[Amaznjohn]

Originally Posted by jtur88

Nothing. I have more money than I need. Which is damned little, but enough.

There is nothing ANYbody can do to better their financial condition. except take somebody else's money. There is a finite amount of money. You can't create any more, you can only take somebody else's.

You can take someone else's money in exchange for services you provide.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by jtur88

texasreb, i refuse to respond to your rambling non-sequiturs, none of which have anything to do with the questions i asked. I refuse your challenge to talk anecdotally about a specific worker instead that same broad class, that you are quick to collectively call lazy and irresponsible. I refuse to tell you the personal details of my own life so you can try to fault me, instead of yourself, for the failure of america to fulfill its promise to its citizens. Except to say that i am the poor, and if i told you what i have done to help people, it might shame you and that is not my intent. In my neightborhood, there are way too many poor people. I live with them and i shop with them and i ride the bus with them, and i understand their circumstances, and one thing i would never do is to degrade their dignity by blaming them for their plight. Life is too hard without money, to try to make it without dignity, either.

OK. I will leave who "wins" to the verdict of all who read our exchanges. Fair enough? G'night and lord a mercy...!

Yet pray tell and compare a bit. Since I HAVE been down there where you say you are? Well, what is wrong with stepping up to the plate and hashing it out...?

All aside...you don't really fool those of us who have been there. You are a poor pretender. It is obvious from your wording and verbage. You mimic good, but don't walk the walk quite right.

So back to square one...tell me about the neighborhood you live in...? WHERE exactly is it? Lets see who is "real"..wanna? I will answer that question first, if you want me to. No problem.

MEANWHILE though, your earlier lunacy about why sweeping a floor deserves $15 an hour speaks for itself as to the credentials for even a semblence of sense.

And please, fer gosh sakes, tell what YOU do to help the poor?

[fitzy24]

If some of you can't see this for what it is, then I pity you.

[okie333]

Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH

Is a doctor a paper pusher, no, he contributes to society by making people feel better. But without that carpenter you wouldn't have a house to live in so doesn't that make them equally important.

Yes it does and I never said otherwise. I was trying to make the statement that a doctor is equally as good as a carpenter. But you have to be joking if you think we all could do without doctors, and let me enlighten you, you do need a degree for that plus medical school and believe me it is a hell of a lot tougher to get through than trying to become a construction worker. I wouldn't want Joe the construction worker performing a heart transplant on me, but i guess in your eyes they are no different..hmmm, ok

Engineers do create something, and then others put it together. But why do you think the guy who drew a picture should get paid more than the men who build it?

Your wrong here. Engineers design and build. In fact not only do they design but then design the machines to do 90% of the labor in some cases like automotive manufacturers. There is almost less than 10% manual labor involved in some automotive assembly lines for an example. In fact in some cases part of being an engineer is being apart of the build process and no im not talking about overseeing things. learn something ...please

College is not the only way to judge a man's worth or intelligence.

No it is not and i did not state that. If you were reading correctly i said that college now days is almost a necessity for any line of work.

The world could be a much simpler place to live in if we removed some of the senseless money sucking jobs out there that really serve no purpose toward the good of mankind.

ok you go remove those jobs do that and well see how long you live ok. SURE who needs, doctors , lawyers, insurance companies....*rollseyes* . In my opinion America is pretty much near perfect COMPAIRED TO ALL YOUR OTHER CHOICES. And while all professions have their problems and are definatly not close to perfect, I would much rather have them then not.

[TexasReb]

I just wanted to write a quick note here to say that in reading over some of my replies of yesterday, I may have come across sarcastic and rude in some places to another poster. I don't like to be that way, and it really wasn't my intent. I stand by my general points, but there are places I could have worded it differently, and should have. For that, I apologize.

With that said though:

I refuse to tell you the personal details of my own life so you can try to fault me, instead of yourself, for the failure of America to fulfill its promise to its citizens. Except to say that I AM the poor, and if I told you what I have done to help people, it might shame you and that is not my intent. In my neightborhood, there are way too many poor people. I live with them and I shop with them and I ride the bus with them, and I understand their circumstances, and one thing I would never do is to degrade their dignity by blaming them for their plight. Life is too hard without money, to try to make it without dignity, either.

I am not really interested in the personal details of your life, and you are certainly not going to "shame" me if you want to compare stats on who does the most to help the "poor." I DO however take issue with your "group think" and cliches. That is to way, you speak of "the poor" for one, as if it is a static condition. In fact, as Thomas Sowell has pointed out time and time again, most of the "poor" in the present will, in another generation, become part of the upper-classes if wise choices and decisions are made.

http://townhall.com/columnists/Thoma...oguery_part_ii

I ask for individual examples (yes, rhetorically, because obviously we are not going to name names per se) because that is the only way to really examine the whole concept. That is, on an individual basis. For example, my son and his wife (and my grandson) are "poor"...but that is because they are young and just starting out in life. She is taking college courses and he has an entry level working class job. So odds are that in 20 years, they will have moved into the middle class. If they don't, and remain in the same income bracket? Well, then I can almost guarantee it is not because of some vague promise you speak of as in "America failed to live up to" but because of their own poor decisions and choices.

Speaking of, can you elaborate a bit on this "promise" of "America" to its citizens? I am sorry, but this is the type of meaningless jargon (and I don't mean that personally) that resonates well in our spoiled and sound-byte society, but is totally devoid of any substance. I don't know of anything in the Constitution nor DOI which "promises" wealth and success to anyone. Who or what exactly do you mean by "America"? Is it the government? Is it a certain collective of individuals? Pray explain this. What America does is (or at least once did, before the welfare state came about) is provided a free-market framework by which an individual could become the best they could be. THAT is American's promise to its citizens. After that, it is up to the individual person to fulfil the promise...

[834SM]

Not everyone "chooses to be poor." Life can turn on a dime, and you may never know what hit you. I'm a "homeless", middle-aged woman who is invisible to many, yet becoming more and more common. For many years I supported myself in a competent and comfortable manner, living alone in a decent studio/or 1 BR apartment, working full-time and meeting my needs. I did not over indulge in luxuries. I have never abused drugs or alcohol, and have tried to live an ethical life and be a contributing member of society. If someone would have asked me 5 years ago if I thought this would ever happen in my life I would have never believed it. Anything can happen to anyone, even those who think they have taken all the necessary "precautions." Financial stability can be taken away in a heartbeat, and many people are two paychecks away from being in my situation, unless they have family they can fall back on.

I'm an educated woman who has always worked within the corporate sector. Two years ago, I was laid off from what was a comfortable and relatively secure position for many years. At first I was able to manage, I had some savings to fall back for rent and medical insurance, etc. and my unemployment check helped cover transportation, food and everyday living expenses. But time passes as quickly as funds dwindle. I became unemployed at the age of 47 and while the country was rapidly slipping into a recession, two major obstacles to deal with. The first thing I realized, without being cynical, is that ageism is alive and well in this country. There was a definite distinction in the amount of interviews and job offers I received when I was in my 20's and 30's compared to what was happening to me in my late 40's. It seems I've become irrelevant. If a person my age with my background applies for an entry level job or a minimum wage job I am told I am "over qualified" or its obvious that younger people are given these jobs. One time I was asked "but why would you want a job that is such a significant cut in salary and less than what you were doing?" Well, the answer seemed simple enough to me -- I need to survive. Many people cannot comprehend that statement unless they are faced with it personally.

After pounding the pavement and draining my savings, I lost my home. I do not have any reliable family to assist me and friends seem to be only able to do so much. Friends can be kind and charitable with food, clothing, the use of a cell phone/computer, or emergency shelter but many of them have their own families, limited space, limited resources and simply cannot or do not want to take on the responsibility of another person's life. Couch surfing is a temporary solution.

I'm out of options. I have tried and tried to organize my thoughts, use all my resources and contact government agencies. I went around in circles and circles and no one could / would help. Since I don't have young, dependent children many of the programs available for those women were out of my reach. Go back to school, learn a new trade? Perhaps. But you first need to find a way to obtain financing to do this and a way to emotionally do this. Getting up, going to classes can be difficult when you are scrambling for your meals and a way to bathe yourself.

I am scrambling and trying desperately to get back on my feet but the tidal wave I am facing with no home or money is holding me under and making it a quickly insurmountable situation. The only viable solution right now seems to be an actual city homeless shelter which means I must relinquish any extra clothing, business apparel, or other life building items. Its a horrible catch-22 situation. Being homeless invites inordinate stress and illness into a formerly functioning persons life. And so on and so forth. Taking a shower every day and cleaning yourself up becomes a herculean task and suddenly an act that most people don't even thing twice about doing within 15 minutes of waking up takes an enormous amount of thought trying to figure out or plan for a person who does not have a home. Job hunting in these circumtances is even more daunting. Most town libraries offer free internet/computer access for a limited time every day and you need to have steady contact information for prospective employers to contact you. Welfare and food banks will keep people from starving to death but cannot give them what they need to live or move forward.

Many people would love to find an excuse as to "why this happened to me" but it did and I know deep down inside it frightens them terribly, as if they can "catch" this disease from me.

So those who judge and say "people choose to be poor" or that we "choose our financial circumstances" sit back and think again. Pick up a newspapers. The economy is spiraling, major financial institutions are crumbling and many people are going to be without their hard earned, well deserved paychecks soon. Try talking to someone who has lost their job and may have suddenly faced a difficult medical emergency or illness. They will be financially ruined in a matter of months. We all know how well the large health insurance companies care and provide for us, right?

Its easy to point a finger and say well "this one squandered, drank, gambled, you fill in the blank .... their money." I'm sure many poor unfortunate people have made these mistakes. But what about the "careful" people who have not done any of these things. Their crime was they hit middle-age, got sick and woke up one morning to mounting living expenses, gas prices, food prices and a much smaller job pool.

[LML]

834SM, My heart goes out to you. I think that millions of Americans, if they are honest with themselves, know that they are 3 paychecks away from disaster. I have talked with so many people who voted for Bush because they thought of democrats as these awful liberals who wanted to take their hard earned money and give it to lazy bums. Now these same people are in foreclosure, have had their jobs shipped overseas, and are living with 2 kids in one bedroom of a relative's home or, like you, are homeless. As you say, I think it is fear that makes people want to believe that the person to whom this happens must be at fault. Because if they ever admit to themselves that it happens ever day to hard working, decent people who did all that society says they should, they would have to face the fact that it can easily happen to them as well. I wish you well and also wish that I had suggestions for you. Perhaps if you attend a church you could talk with the minister? Sometimes they know someone in the congregation who may be in a position to hire you. Or maybe a live-in nanny position? Just trying to think of something to help.

[Amaznjohn]

Forgive me if I think this is a masquerade. In the event that it is not, I would submit that I don't know why you got "laid off", so I can't really address that portion of your story. For example, if you were in the manufacturing industry, a reasonable action would be to take night classes at a community college to be prepared for the inevitable "lay off". If this was not the case, then the first thing to do would be to take your savings and learn a trade that is in demand, even for someone or your age, i.e. CNA, LPN, or RN. I don't know your expertise, so I can't really make that call. Its something that only you can decide.
Since you have reached the point that you have, you might look to relocate to an area that would have jobs available that would provide you enough income to rent a small apartment. In some areas, these are not expensive and can be maintained with a minimum wage job until such time as you receive training in another more marketable job. Good luck.

BTW, some sectors of the economy are still growing, just don't expect to get a loan anytime soon especially since you lost your house.

[jtur88]

Amaznjohn, are you giving your family quality time, or are you spending all your free time taking advanced courses and second jobs, so if you get laid off, you will be prepared?

Is the "American Dream" and "The Good Life" simply endless work and study? Is that what our ancestors worked so hard to create for us---generation after generation of constant toil?

Why do you have children? So you can ignore them while you work two jobs and take college classes, and so they can live their own lives doing the same thing, neglecting their children and working two jobs and taking college classes, so they can subject the next generation to more repetitions, century after century of this "American Dream"? When will the tree fruit?

Workers in European countries get 6 weeks paid vacation their very first year on the job. If they lose their job, they get 6 months with full pay. Everybody has health care, nobody has two jobs, they spend their time filfilling themselves and their families. Yes, you will say, and look at their productivity---no where near ours. OK. You look. Look in your garage at all that old junk that is piled up. That is YOUR productivity. Europeans can live fine without your garage full of junk. Why can't Americans?