Hate crimes: Gays vandalize SF Castro church! (independent, county, elect)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Good grief you Americans seem to love to label each other as left and right, conservative and liberal, red and blue etc and then assign a whole skew of beliefs and behaviour to each. Are there any up and down people? Round or square? Lumpy or smooth?
We're not all like that. You're dealing with someone who is extremely one-sided in his views.
Any time someone commits a violent act because they don't like what someone else believes or stands for it is a hate crime. It certainly is not an act of love to desecrate a Church. In fact, in this case the criminal acts may indeed rise an act of terror. These perps. are trying to use the threat of violence to scare people whose beliefs are different from their own out of the democratic process. Whoever committed this crime certainly didn't do it because they love the Church or its members who are likely voters. Why didn't the perps. deface the Legislature's Office or the City Hall or Voting Poles? They picked an easy target to victimize. This was a hate crime and the guilty need the full consequences of the law. We have a democratic process in this country and everyone needs to work within that process for the change they seek. The voters have spoken... Respect Democracy...
Ok this is a response for Gizmo.... I don't feel like requoting everything.
Everything I said in that post was drawn from experiences I and some of my friends have had in college. I personally had to write that paper, and failed it for disagreeing with global warming ( specifically stated that as the reason for the failure). Ended up withdrawing from the class, which cost me about $1500 just because I didn't agree with global warming and formulated a good paper, just of the opposing viewpoint. Filed a complaint, but was rejected by the university since the "unifying theme" is not subject to debate.
As for the acceptance seminar.... I don't have that much of a problem, but I can see where others would. There is a BIG difference between tolerance and acceptance. I don't have a problem with most gays, but the cross-dressing in public flamboyant ones? Or the goths...males wearing black fingernails and using eyeliner, with the really long hair? Or th lazy apathetic slobs that play WoW all day? Or the transsexuals? I can tolerate them..... but don't expect me to accept them, I come from a very traditional Southerner and military family. And many very religious students will have an even harder time of accepting them than me.
And before you beat me over the head with "ignorance or hate" or whatever, I understand y'all are from SF and are therefore very open to everything. I come from the rural South ( mixed African-American and German, not exactly the most liberal cultures), and while I will not judge based on what someone is (race, gender at birth, ethnicitiy) I will judge on who they are (gender identity, professionalism, attitude) and to tell me to accept them regardless of everything, like the univeristy does, is just something I cannot agree with.
I respect democracy, and I respect the fact that every one of us has a right to challenge any law that we don't like. The courts make the final decisions. That's the way our system of government was set up. It's not always perfect, but it sure works better than putting everything up for a popular vote.
Any time someone commits a violent act because they don't like what someone else believes or stands for it is a hate crime.
Definition of a hate crime:
Hate crimes occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.
There is a BIG difference between tolerance and acceptance. I don't have a problem with most gays, but the cross-dressing in public flamboyant ones? Or the goths...males wearing black fingernails and using eyeliner, with the really long hair? Or th lazy apathetic slobs that play WoW all day? Or the transsexuals? I can tolerate them..... but don't expect me to accept them
What's your definition of "acceptance"? Do you think it should be illegal for a man to dress as a woman or a woman to dress as a man in public? If not, then what does it matter if you accept them or not?
Ok this is a response for Gizmo.... I don't feel like requoting everything.
Everything I said in that post was drawn from experiences I and some of my friends have had in college. I personally had to write that paper, and failed it for disagreeing with global warming ( specifically stated that as the reason for the failure). Ended up withdrawing from the class, which cost me about $1500 just because I didn't agree with global warming and formulated a good paper, just of the opposing viewpoint. Filed a complaint, but was rejected by the university since the "unifying theme" is not subject to debate.
As for the acceptance seminar.... I don't have that much of a problem, but I can see where others would. There is a BIG difference between tolerance and acceptance. I don't have a problem with most gays, but the cross-dressing in public flamboyant ones? Or the goths...males wearing black fingernails and using eyeliner, with the really long hair? Or th lazy apathetic slobs that play WoW all day? Or the transsexuals? I can tolerate them..... but don't expect me to accept them, I come from a very traditional Southerner and military family. And many very religious students will have an even harder time of accepting them than me.
And before you beat me over the head with "ignorance or hate" or whatever, I understand y'all are from SF and are therefore very open to everything. I come from the rural South ( mixed African-American and German, not exactly the most liberal cultures), and while I will not judge based on what someone is (race, gender at birth, ethnicitiy) I will judge on who they are (gender identity, professionalism, attitude) and to tell me to accept them regardless of everything, like the univeristy does, is just something I cannot agree with.
That's fine... you have the right to dislike somebody - how they act, dress, speak, walk, etc. - but the point of "diversity tolerance" is teaching people not to HATE others for these things. You can raise an eyebrow at a transsexual, and I don't think anyone would give you crap about that... but if someone believes it's their right to berate or harass this person, I certainly hope any university would condemn that. I also think these seminars (which I do actually have to attend for work) are simply trying to educate you about different types of people. Maybe you are only uncomfortable with flamboyant gays because you haven't taken the time to know them? Or perhaps you don't understand how they feel, what specifically is hurtful to them, and why they are like that in the first place.
Either way, it can't hurt to learn about these things, and at least TRY to become more tolerant. I highly doubt your college would force anyone to change their views, especially since that would be a rather difficult thing to test/prove. Nobody is asking you to have a drag queen over for dinner, but I'm sure they would at least appreciate your respect and courtesy. Although, maybe you should have a queen over - they're usually a hoot!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
