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Coupled with strong regulations of the insurance industry, nothing less. If it becomes a watered down affair, in which I think we are going to see from both paid off parties, it will fail in time and in short order. It is then a one payer system will be the only alternative.
I have said this for a while now that Obama knows that the present bill if introduced will fail. This will lead to a single payer system as America will be in full panic mode by then.
Obama is far from stupid and will play the anti uhc brigade at their own game. Give them what they push for, watch it crumble and so take the steam out of any further objections in the future.
I have said this for a while now that Obama knows that the present bill if introduced will fail. This will lead to a single payer system as America will be in full panic mode by then.
Obama is far from stupid and will play the anti uhc brigade at their own game. Give them what they push for, watch it crumble and so take the steam out of any further objections in the future.
If you knew anything about American politics you would know that what you describe is a total receipe of disaster for the democratic party - they will lose control of both houses of Congress - next year and it will only get worse in 2012 - and they will lose the White House in 2012.
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[1] Government imposed scarcity - the licensing of medical care workers and criminalizing those who give care but are not licensed, imposes scarcity. If you want "Universal" health care, you have to decriminalize health care. Let the customer decide, not the government, on what construes satisfactory medical care. Provide a public access database of those who have passed exams and acquired credentials.
[2] Government imposed overhead expenses - the socialist health and tax imposes overhead expenses, so do mandated paperwork and storage of records. Those costs pass to the customer - who pays all the bills - as demonstrated by the high cost.
[3] Private insurance imposed overhead expenses - the bureaucracy imposed by private insurance has changed the physician's office into an administrative jungle of forms, receptionists, intake clerks, and office managers... which all have to be paid by the customer - eventually.
[4] Inequitable Tort awards - malpractice insurance premiums are sky high, as are awards. The sad truth is that the lawyers reap the majority of the benefits at the expense of the physicians, victims, and the patients who eventually pays the bill.
[5] Monopolies - Allopathic medicine has a bad habit of claiming any competing medical system as "quackery", despite their own history of bad practices and ineffective treatments. In addition, why do "free people" need to buy permission from a licensed physician before they can purchase medical necessities from a licensed distributor? Doesn't that increase the cost? Or are "we, the people" just too stupid and careless to take care of ourselves without first bribing a government licensed allopath?
The simplest way to reduce costs is to eliminate the parasites who feed on the transaction chain.
Patient ==> $$$ ==> Care giver.
One thing is certain, any "national" (government controlled) single payer medical system will benefit the government, first, and foremost. For they will have another excuse to tax, control, spend, manipulate and bribe their way to greater power.
And once the frugal, efficient, paragon of economy, i.e., government bureaucracy is in command, certainly we will have MORE doctors, MORE nurses, MORE hospital beds, MORE clinics, CHEAPER medicine, GREATER advancements in research, and therefore LESS waiting, LESS misdiagnosis, LESS insurance malpractice premiums, and a wonderful wonderful "free" health care system - that can afford to treble the cost to those stinkin' rich who should pay for those 42 million uninsured (and dead beat illegal aliens who don't pay taxes nor their hospital bills), which, in turn, will only trickle down to the ever shrinking wages of the struggling workforce - who ARE paying the taxes consumed by the legions of parasites, drones, paper pushers, office managers, data entry clerks, and legal departments needed to decipher the convoluted legal language that will blossom forth, like dandelion seeds upon a once pristine lawn.
So, you support social engineering and the Government telling you what, and how to do it - and if you don't do it their (Government) way - you're OK with the government penalizing you?
You are kidding - right?
No. I am not kidding. You don't think the insurance company does this? I just got a statement of my policy from State Farm and there is $105 credit for being a safe driver. When people have DUIs they have to pay higher premiums. Why? Because they are being penalized for being irresponsible. However, as I stated in another post, there are health conditions that we cannot control, yet the health insurance industry rates us by our pre-existing conditions and our age.
A health insurance company will give you a preferred rate if you keep your weight at a certain level. Also, if you don't smoke you get a better rate than if you do. Tell me why you call this social engineering if it's a public option that the average working person can afford?
Do you know what the MIB Group is? That is the Medical Information Bureau which is used by the insurance industry to report all your personal medical records. Members share that information. [URL]http://www.mib.com/[/URL] Note next to MIB its motto is KNOWLEDGE TO DRIVE DECISIONS. Do you think this stuff is private? The knowledge to drive decisions means that if you have had a prior medical condition, the insurance company can come to a decision that you are not a good risk or you should pay a higher premium.
So tell me why following an exercise program and proper diet as incentives is more invasive? As a taxpayer I don't want people abusing health care, I want them to appreciate it. Just like driving, it is a privilege. You choose to drive and obey rules every time you get behind the wheel. Why do you drive if you don't like the government telling you what to do? There are signs everywhere telling you to STOP, YIELD, DO NOT ENTER. It is ridiculous for anyone to assume when we get up in the morning that we are not "penalized" (to use your word) by the government - local, state, or federal. You pay taxes or you are penalized. You can't run a red light or you are penalized. There are rules about the height of your grass. That's life.
By the way, do you know what the word OPTION means? It means you have a choice. If you don't want the option then you can stick with your plan from the health insurance company, the one that costs more than a lot of mortgages, the one that might not pay if you get sick, the one that increases by a cost of 10% a year, the one that tells you what network of doctors to go to, the one that won't cover a pre-existing condition or approve a treatment that is too expensive......
This forum is obviously in favor of the left.
90% of Americans love their plan.
Do we really want to spend more and screw up America even more????
Governmnet take over healthcare, cars, and the stockmarket, and next dictorship.
Obama Don your Beret!
This forum is obviously in favor of the left.
90% of Americans love their plan.
Do we really want to spend more and screw up America even more????
Governmnet take over healthcare, cars, and the stockmarket, and next dictorship.
Obama Don your Beret!
Interesting post. So what you are saying by this forum is "in favor of the left" is that 90% of Americans are conservatives? If 90% of Americans are happy with their health insurance coverage & premiums, then why did Obama win the election when one of the major issues he campaigned on was UHC?
Just more lies spread by Fox. (or Faux news) Now here's some real news.
[URL="http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kwmu/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1527475/KWMU.News/Survey.shows.business.owners.can%27t.afford.employ ee.health.insurance"]KWMU: Survey shows business owners can't afford employee health insurance (2009-07-08)[/URL]
"The group randomly surveyed 200 Missouri small business owners. It found 46% offer employees health insurance. Eighty-nine percent of those who don't said it's because they can't afford the premiums."
Small Business Majority | SBM Research (http://www.smallbusinessmajority.org/sbmresearch.php - broken link)
"Lake Research conducted surveys of small business owners in 14 states across the country (Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin) in May-June 2009. Response patterns were remarkably similar from region to region."
Read the rest of the article. Over and over again, small business owners support health care reform. For example, look at New Hampshire.
[LIST][*] 52% of small employers do not provide insurance, and 84% of them say they can’t afford it.[*]The number one concern of New Hampshire small businesses in healthcare reform is controlling costs.[*]68% say it’s important for individuals, employers, insurers, the government and healthcare providers to share the responsibility for making healthcare more affordable.[/LIST]Then there's Maine business owners who say:
[LIST][*] 75% say healthcare reform is important for getting the economy back on track.[*]The number one concern for Maine small businesses in healthcare reform is controlling costs, followed by providing coverage for everybody.[*]59% believe that their company has a responsibility to provide health insurance for its employees.[/LIST][URL]http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/latest/latest/employer-cant-afford-health-insurance/18303161001/30305405001/[/URL]
Employer Can't Afford Health Insurance
Now, how can you say "90% of Americans love their plan." It's hogwash.
Nancy, i can't believe you still believe in Obama.
You could run the country better than this radical!
His approval rating is below 50% and dropping.
The guy can't do anything right.
If you knew anything about American politics you would know that what you describe is a total receipe of disaster for the democratic party - they will lose control of both houses of Congress - next year and it will only get worse in 2012 - and they will lose the White House in 2012.
If you knew anything about American History and politics greatday you would know that worse things than this have been devised by the govermnent to get what they want. In ww2 the Govt allowed Pearl Harbor to be attacked to get into the war. It worked and was a huge success for the Govt even though it cost American lives. I'm sure you would have said about that plan exactly what you are saying about this idea that the people would turn on the govt. It didn't happen then and it won't happen now.
I love how people quote this 90% of American's love their health plan. It is 90% of polled American's WITH a insurance plan. It is always put so that people think it's 90% of Americans which is far from the truth.
Because not everyone has employer sponsored health insurance.
True. In fact over 47 million don't have insurance at all. Didn't you read my post? The various surveys conducted were referring to small business owners, which includes individuals or couples. (A small business in FL is 2 or more people.) Who else would have insurance? If you're talking about people who work in companies that don't offer insurance, then again read the article. It states that these small companies would like to offer it, but can't afford the premiums. So, let's say you work at a store and make $10 or even $15 an hour. You pay rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, and out of your paycheck you have just enough to buy food and gas every week. How can you pay $800 a month for an insurance plan to cover your family?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
One example is, the millions and millions of Americans who are self employed / independent contractors. They have to provide insurance on their own.
Exactly. Many of these people cannot get insurance or it is too expensive. Most of the independent contractors I know can't afford to pay for a good family plan and take care of their families at the same time. Nobody should have to make that choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
The Millions and millions of employees who do have employer sponsored health insurance - and surveys have shown a majority are happy with it.
I worked for a company for over 20 years and had great benefits. I would have answered "My benefits are good" too back then. This has nothing to do with the tens of millions who can't get insurance or who lost their coverage and can't afford individual plans. I know many people whose companies offer insurance, but they can't join since they don't make enough money to pay the premiums. This is the same mentality that can't understand why someone works 40 hours a week and still needs Food Stamps.
As I've said many times, we all live in our own bubble. When I sold furniture in an upscale store, some customers would spend $50,000 on a livingroom without batting an eye. Once a woman collapsed on a sofa and cried to me (I thought she was going to say she just found out she has cancer) "You can't possibly understand how exhausting it is to furnish such a big house." Yes, she was right. Maybe we should start a charity for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
The Millions and Millions of Seniors who have Medicare - and are really concerned about the Democratic legislation that would reduce their benefits -
Did you see some of the crowds at the town meetings? One group was asked "raise your hands if you don't want government sponsored health care." A lot of people responded. Then they same people were asked "How many of you have Medicare?" They raised their hands again!
Medicare is many times better than any government health care program that's being proposed in Congress. Our taxes are paying for people who get Medicare benefits, since the recipients are either over 65 or on SSI. So where do they think the money is coming from and who is running the program? It is totally mind boggling & astounding that people who are on Medicare are against a public option. They're either completely clueless or the most selfish people on the planet. I can tell you from experience that most people on Medicare complain when they have to spend a dime for health care. The government is NOT talking about reducing the benefits. It wants to cut waste & fraud. The 2003 Medicare Modernization Act signed by President Bush created multi-millionaires by allowing private companies to sell Medicare Advantage Plans and Medicare Part D plans to Medicare recipients. Medicare "C" was the first step to privatize Medicare and is costing taxpayers billions. That's what happens when you change a government program into a for-profit venture.
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If you're talking about people who work in companies that don't offer insurance, then again read the article. It states that these small companies would like to offer it, but can't afford the premiums. So, let's say you work at a store and make $10 or even $15 an hour. You pay rent or mortgage, utilities, insurance, and out of your paycheck you have just enough to buy food and gas every week. How can you pay $800 a month for an insurance plan to cover your family? 
