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If we lived in a country with medical care for all its citizens, we wouldn't be comparing Medicare with under 65 health coverage, would we? It's sad that it's come to this, where older people are worried about losing benefits because younger people want to be able to go to the doctor. ?
Medicare will become the under-65 health coverage, and what we know now as Medicare for seniors will cease to exist. It will be watered down so as to be affordable care for everybody. There will be nothing more to compare.
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics
And you can bet the farm, that "Universal Health Care" will cost far more than what we already pay. Because increasing the size of bureaucracy, paperwork, administrative overhead, regulatory complexity, and staffing will inevitably increase the cost to the consumer. It's common sense.
You are correct about socialism. I, too, have seen its results personally. As for costs of UHC, Universal Health Care is projected to cost $200 Billion by the year 2019 (CBO).
I listened to an ER nurse bringing up some very good points. If we grant amnesty to 11 million illegals and add them to the mix and to the health care plan our hospitals will be so overburdened we could not function. You will wait in line for hours. So, again my concern is a system that would cover head colds and little things chewing up the funds. Why not just a policy that would cover extreme care?
I listened to an ER nurse bringing up some very good points. If we grant amnesty to 11 million illegals and add them to the mix and to the health care plan our hospitals will be so overburdened we could not function. You will wait in line for hours. So, again my concern is a system that would cover head colds and little things chewing up the funds. Why not just a policy that would cover extreme care?
catastropic coverage for everybody, which is the main concern that people have voiced. I'd go for that even if I had to help pay for it.
Al Jazeera's Fault Lines looks at the US health care system, expose its cracks, and uncover the forces that are spending millions of dollars every day to influence the debate over the US health care reform.
Where did you live when you were enjoying the benefits of "Socialism"?
Why, in the United Socialist States of America, a wholly owned subsidiary of the World Bank and IMF.
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What bad experiences did you have?
Hmmmm, where to begin....
Let's start with the obligation to work almost 50% of your life for the benefit of another. (Half slavery is still slavery). (Recent stats show that it takes 2.5 workers to fund each recipient in national socialism).
Or that you have to ask permission (get a license) before you can own a dog, build a house, travel, marry, enter occupations, start a business, "practice" medicine, and so on.
Or that you are at risk of fines or incarceration for disobedience of the socialist rules, even when there are no injured parties, whose person or property was injured by your disobedience. (i.e., traffic, zoning, codes, trade)
Or that you will spend 30 years or more to pay off a debt to usurers when you buy a 'code enforced' minimalist shelter constructed of ephemeral materials, and designed more to sell than to perform its task. (mortgage)
Or that you face property confiscation and incarceration for failure to obey all the myriad socialist tax rules embodied in Title 26 United States Code, even though not 1 in 100000 could decipher them correctly. (Studies have shown that even "Tax professionals" are inconsistent and inaccurate in their determinations.) (But if you're an insider, like Geithner, why bother even paying such petty nuisances. Taxes are for the "little people".)
Or that you have to buy permission from a government licensed person before you can purchase needed medical products from another government licensed person, at a substantial markup. (prescription drugs and supplies)
Or that the socialist rules encourage the break up of marriages, and leave the non-custodial parent with nothing but an obligation to labor for the benefit of children he/she can't dwell with... in essence supporting two households.
And if you're an elected official, you can vote yourself salary, perquisites, staffing allowances, medical insurance, transportation, and housing benefits that are far superior to the majority of your constituents. And let us not forget the substantial benefit of the bribery, graft and corruption that comes with power.
Oh, yes, we live in a socialist paradise...
*Sarcasm flag off
... but we all volunteered!
(You do know that you volunteered, right?)
Last edited by jetgraphics; 08-07-2009 at 12:41 PM..
Al Jazeera's Fault Lines looks at the US health care system, expose its cracks, and uncover the forces that are spending millions of dollars every day to influence the debate over the US health care reform.
First, the government creates a for-profit monopoly, and then acts surprised when that monopoly fights to keep its profits?
Sigh...
"Universal" Health care will only happen when health care is decriminalized.
Then everyone can treat everyone else, to the best of their ability.
Open access to all for medical education, and end the government imposed scarcity.
End the rationing of medicine, via prescriptions.
A free adult should have the right to purchase whatever medical treatment or substance he desires, without impediment.
THEN you will see health care costs decrease to manageable levels.
catastropic coverage for everybody, which is the main concern that people have voiced. I'd go for that even if I had to help pay for it.
I agree that I'd rather have something than nothing (which is what I have now) but it won't fix the problem. Once you have a "catastrophe" you are already too sick to help. If you have a $5,000 or $10,000 deductible, you won't seek medical help when you really need it BEFORE it becomes an expensive problem.
I got criticized before by saying I would join a national program that had rules & regulations, i.e., annual checkups & tests, because this way people won't wait until their benign tumors become malignant or that cancer reaches Stage 4. It isn't because I want the government to tell me how to run my life, but we all need to be responsible too. It was just a thought. I was talking about routine tests like mammograms, cholesterol levels, blood pressure and tests for diabetes.
What so many fail to realize is that, if we become a healthier country, it will cost us less in the long term, not more. What happens when people claim bankruptcy? A serious illness or accident is the #1 reason people file, over 60% of all bankrupties are due to the cost of health care. In fact, more than 75% of the people who filed for bankruptcy HAD INSURANCE when they became sick. If you can't work and you have medical bills, you can't pay your mortgage or car payment for very long.
People keep crying about illegals. I don't believe a public option would really help that many illegal aliens, since they'd have to register. After Hurricane Charley there were immigrant families who hid in the woods without food, water or shelter, because they were so frightened. A public option is not the same as health care for all. Why not just call it "Medicare for the rest of us?"
Speaking of Medicare, I posted this next comment on another thread.
I got more than angry last night when I watched the news. I got depressed. Maybe I should stop caring so much, but this affects me personally. So when I saw a woman on Medicare saying that she didn't care about the 47 million people who don't have insurance, I wanted to get up and put my fist through the TV. (I pay for health insurance, but it stinks & it's very expensive.)
On another thread, someone told me that the people currently on Medicare paid for it. First of all, Medicare didn't exist before 1966. So the people in their 80s and 90s were working well before they began contributing to it.
Another reason saying "they worked for it" is often a lot of bullcrap is that you only have to work a total of 10 years in your lifetime. (40 qualifying quarters) But even if you never worked a day in your life, you can get Medicare if you are married to or were married to someone who qualifies for Medicare. Since I sold Medicare Supplements and Medicare Advantage plans for 2 years, I met a lot of people who were covered only because their spouses qualified, even ex-husbands. In fact, I enrolled people who weren't even Americans!! For example, did you know that a Canadian who has not paid one single dime into our Social Security system still qualifies for free Medicare Part A coverage under the qualifying spouse rule? I didn't realize that until I got into the business and met a few people who were not citizens, but received Medicare from our government.
Now I'm being told as a 58 year old American who worked for over 30 years that I don't deserve affordable health care when millions of people are on socialized medicine paid for by my taxes. I can't think of a word to describe how I feel about the protesters. Selfish? Ignorant? Well, actually I can, but they're mostly 4 letter words!
Last edited by justNancy; 08-07-2009 at 02:23 PM..
Reason: fix spelling
I agree that I'd rather have something than nothing (which is what I have now) but it won't fix the problem. Once you have a "catastrophe" you are already too sick to help. If you have a $5,000 or $10,000 deductible, you won't seek medical help when you really need it BEFORE it becomes an expensive problem.
I got criticized before by saying I would join a national program that had rules & regulations, i.e., annual checkups & tests, because this way people won't wait until their benign tumors become malignant or that cancer reaches Stage 4. It isn't because I want the government to tell me how to run my life, but we all need to be responsible too. It was just a thought. I was talking about routine tests like mammograms, cholestorol levels, blood pressure and tests for diabetes.
What so many fail to realize is that, if we become a healthier country, it will cost us less in the long term, not more. What happens when people claim bankruptcy? A serious illness or accident is the #1 reason people file, over 60% of all bankrupties are due to the cost of health care. In fact, more than 75% of the people who filed for bankruptcy HAD INSURANCE when they became sick. If you can't work and you have medical bills, you can't pay your mortgage or car payment for very long.
People keep crying about illegals. I don't believe a public option would really help that many illegal aliens, since they'd have to register. After Hurricane Charley there were immigrant families who hid in the woods without food, water or shelter, because they were so frightened. A public option is not the same as health care for all. Why not just call it "Medicare for the rest of us?"
Speaking of Medicare, I posted this next comment on another thread.
I got more than angry last night when I watched the news. I got depressed. Maybe I should stop caring so much, but this affects me personally. So when I saw a woman on Medicare saying that she didn't care about the 47 million people who don't have insurance, I wanted to get up and put my fist through the TV. (I pay for health insurance, but it stinks & it's very expensive.)
On another thread, someone told me that the people currently on Medicare paid for it. First of all, Medicare didn't exist before 1966. So the people in their 80s and 90s were working well before they began contributing to it.
Another reason saying "they worked for it" is often a lot of bullcrap is that you only have to work a total of 10 years in your lifetime. (40 qualifying quarters) But even if you never worked a day in your life, you can get Medicare if you are married to or were married to someone who qualifies for Medicare. Since I sold Medicare Supplements and Medicare Advantage plans for 2 years, I met a lot of people who were covered only because their spouses qualified, even ex-husbands. In fact, I enrolled people who weren't even Americans!! For example, did you know that a Canadian who has not paid one single dime into our Social Security system still qualifies for free Medicare Part A coverage under the qualifying spouse rule? I didn't realize that until I got into the business and met a few people who were not citizens, but received Medicare from our government.
Now I'm being told as a 58 year old American who worked for over 30 years that I don't deserve affordable health care when millions of people are on socialized medicine paid for by my taxes. I can't think of a word to describe how I feel about the protesters. Selfish? Ignorant? Well, actually I can, but they're mostly 4 letter words!
I feel your pain.
I pay for Medicare every month out of my paycheck...where is my Medicare? Oh I have to wait about 40 something years.
In any case, I'm sick of "debating" about this. Nothing meaningful will be passed and the American people will still keep getting fu**ed by the health insurance industry. We had our chance and we blew it.
So many people are opposed to any kind of reform simply because a Democrat is president and/or the President is black (IMO he's biracial but whatever).
I would love for their to be a public option along the lines of something federal employees get. People who mark on their income tax form if they want to be a part of the health insurance plan, they would get something in the mail asking them what plan works for them, and they would select how much they want taken out monthly to pay for their health insurance.
It would help businesses because many of their employees would choose the public option, thus helping reduce some of their expenses.
btw, for what it's worth, we can't call it health care reform. It has now been renamed to "health insurance reform".
I get the feeling they are playing mental games with us. While there will be major reform to health care, they want us to concentrate on the "insurance" part because they think that is what people are most angry about; they expect that will take our minds off the rationing of care that is coming, and end all the questions.
IF the ACTUAL intention is to make health insurance more affordable thereby making it more accessible, there are things that can be done to help do this:
1) Allow health insurance pools be nationwide - not merely by state. By increasing the size of the pools, it will spread the risk out - and will lower insurance premiums.
2) Simplify health insurance company regulations - have one regulatory body instead of the current system of 50 bodies
3) Make health care costs - including insurance premiums, a fully deductible item on your tax returns - and do it "above the line" which will directly reduce your taxable income - you will pay less in income taxes
4) Eliminate pre-existing condition exclusions
5) Provide subsidizes for low income Americans to assist them in purchasing health insurance of THEIR choice.
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