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Old 01-25-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,618 posts, read 1,594,669 times
Reputation: 861

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
This is a sensitive subject. I don't tend to dive into these often but I will stick my toe or 2 cents in just this once.

I think the Rooney is silly not because of its purpose but because of its NEED. Why would owners hire black players at a 70% clip for their labor positions but only a 15% clip of their management positions. Now that to me is a real head scratcher.. You would think that if black players made up 70% of the labor positions they would make up at least 50% of management positions if not more and yet that is NOT the case.

What it boils down to is this; (Some) Owners think that black players are good enough to play but not good enough to coach.. They thought the same thing about the QB position years ago. It's dumb.. plain and simple.. That's why the Rooney rule is needed. Some owners would NOT even consider a black coaching candidate before and now they at least have to interview one.. That alone gives black candidates experience in the interviewing room and it gives more black players an incentive to go into coaching after playing..

Before the Rooney rule, many black players would not even consider coaching after playing because they knew they would not get hired or they would stall out before even reaching a coordinator position. Now they have a bit more hope. But I will say this. I don't think you will ever see the black head coaches percentage reach the same 70% level as the black players. FOr one, more coaches are coming up from the coaching ranks vs the playing ranks than ever before. Sure, these guys played football in High School and probably a small college but when their dream of playing in the NFL finally died, they said.. let me try coaching.. It makes sense that if more black players are going on to play in the NFL then more white players are falling out of that category and joinging the coaching category.

Until we get to the point where ALL 32 owners hire the best candidate and not just the best white candidate we will continue to debate.
I couldnt have said it better. Thanks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:58 AM
 
1,062 posts, read 1,347,747 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
This is a sensitive subject. I don't tend to dive into these often but I will stick my toe or 2 cents in just this once.

I think the Rooney is silly not because of its purpose but because of its NEED. Why would owners hire black players at a 70% clip for their labor positions but only a 15% clip of their management positions. Now that to me is a real head scratcher.. You would think that if black players made up 70% of the labor positions they would make up at least 50% of management positions if not more and yet that is NOT the case.

What it boils down to is this; (Some) Owners think that black players are good enough to play but not good enough to coach.. They thought the same thing about the QB position years ago. It's dumb.. plain and simple.. That's why the Rooney rule is needed. Some owners would NOT even consider a black coaching candidate before and now they at least have to interview one.. That alone gives black candidates experience in the interviewing room and it gives more black players an incentive to go into coaching after playing..

Before the Rooney rule, many black players would not even consider coaching after playing because they knew they would not get hired or they would stall out before even reaching a coordinator position. Now they have a bit more hope. But I will say this. I don't think you will ever see the black head coaches percentage reach the same 70% level as the black players. FOr one, more coaches are coming up from the coaching ranks vs the playing ranks than ever before. Sure, these guys played football in High School and probably a small college but when their dream of playing in the NFL finally died, they said.. let me try coaching.. It makes sense that if more black players are going on to play in the NFL then more white players are falling out of that category and joinging the coaching category.

Until we get to the point where ALL 32 owners hire the best candidate and not just the best white candidate we will continue to debate.

I see the truth inscribe all throughout your post. Clearly the others week have a hard time justifying the trash going on throughout the coaching process as well around several corners throughout society.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:32 AM
 
52,031 posts, read 41,862,229 times
Reputation: 32463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma5cmpb View Post
Right now the system is set up as a good ole boy system which the NFL is trying to change. Its difficult when you have older white males running the organizations. Once younger people start getting involved then you'll see more diversity. There is no way that Norv Turner should be getting job after job after job. He hasnt done anything since the early 90's.
How many black head coaches are there currently in the NFL?

As a % of population it should be around 3.

With such a small number, even in a normal world there would sometimes be 0, or 1 or 5 and so forth.

Basically, if you have 4 black head coaches one year and 2 the next.....then it's suddenly evidence of racism? I ask this because there can be a lot of factors to the situation, just like you have some very respected coaches that don't even want to coach anymore or take a year off.

So, again...how many are there and how many do you think there should be and what would be an acceptable range on a year basis?

Just so you know we have a thread about the 1/2 billion or so in federal funding going into getting more blacks into the math and science field because they are under-represented in proportion to population. Even if their interests didn't lie in that direction or they were exposed to math and science heavily in their youth etc etc. Isn't it interesting that we do that for some things but when it comes to something like football, suddenly percentage of population isn't a fair yardstick but it should rather be closer to the percentage of blacks engaging in the activity of football?

I mean, imagine that few blacks were interested in teaching english but tons were interested in teaching math....and then you had 3% of english teachers black and 50% of math teachers black.....and then you called the hiring process of english teachers racist and the 50% mark to be wholely acceptable because so many blacks were interested in teaching math and went into the field. At what point would you need to start firing black math teachers and giving preference to oh....asian or white or hispanic math teachers to "fix" the problem?

Last edited by Mathguy; 01-25-2013 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:45 AM
 
Location: In a cave
946 posts, read 823,617 times
Reputation: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
How many black head coaches are there currently in the NFL?

As a % of population it should be around 3.

With such a small number, even in a normal world there would sometimes be 0, or 1 or 5 and so forth.

Basically, if you have 4 black head coaches one year and 2 the next.....then it's suddenly evidence of racism? I ask this because there can be a lot of factors to the situation, just like you have some very respected coaches that don't even want to coach anymore or take a year off.

So, again...how many are there and how many do you think there should be and what would be an acceptable range on a year basis?
I love your name, and as a fellow "mathguy" I was attempting to inform the dopes that believe this is racism about the coaching statistics, the general population of blacks and how they jive with each other.

What I can't WAIT to hear from someone like yourself, is how do you interpret the black demographics of the actual players (It is roughly 65-70% black athletes in NFL)? If you turn this same question around and pose it to these same people they will quickly say everything is meritorious and there is no evidence of racism, despite the over representation being 5 times the demographics of general population.

Care to expound? (I am befriending you btw)
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:26 PM
 
1,062 posts, read 1,347,747 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I love your name, and as a fellow "mathguy" I was attempting to inform the dopes that believe this is racism about the coaching statistics, the general population of blacks and how they jive with each other.

What I can't WAIT to hear from someone like yourself, is how do you interpret the black demographics of the actual players (It is roughly 65-70% black athletes in NFL)? If you turn this same question around and pose it to these same people they will quickly say everything is meritorious and there is no evidence of racism, despite the over representation being 5 times the demographics of general population.

Care to expound? (I am befriending you btw)
Something dealing in inequality does not necessarily pertain to racism. However to ignore the fact that the taste of racism is not an after taste but-- from fresh crop, appears insane. I wouldn't say the issue is racism but I would not be surprised if bigotry dug its claws in somewhere along the process. If the math were reversed and not in our favor we would be chopping at the bit as well. Attempting to ensure we received our fair Anglo share of the pie

Time will tell the truth, as we push the baby boomers out, we will have a better insight of the MATH guys.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,873 posts, read 23,176,756 times
Reputation: 37276
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPECFRCE View Post
Something dealing in inequality does not necessarily pertain to racism. However to ignore the fact that the taste of racism is not an after taste but-- from fresh crop, appears insane. I wouldn't say the issue is racism but I would not be surprised if bigotry dug its claws in somewhere along the process. If the math were reversed and not in our favor we would be chopping at the bit as well. Attempting to ensure we received our fair Anglo share of the pie

Time will tell the truth, as we push the baby boomers out, we will have a better insight of the MATH guys.
You mean the same baby boomers who fought for civil rights?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:03 PM
 
1,062 posts, read 1,347,747 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
You mean the same baby boomers who fought for civil rights?
I'm sure some family marched with the blacks for civil rights just as some of family members were oppose to it soooooooo what's your point and yes even those whom fought for civil rights.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
21,873 posts, read 23,176,756 times
Reputation: 37276
My point being - you are characterizing an entire generation as one that needs to be "pushed out" ostensibly to make way for those who are more openminded. I think that is unfair. Some of those very generation are one who brought about raised consciousness and change. If you feel individuals need to be "pushed out" or encouraged to rethink or whatever that is one thing. Saying every Boomer needs to be pushed out is wrong.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:32 PM
 
1,062 posts, read 1,347,747 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
My point being - you are characterizing an entire generation as one that needs to be "pushed out" ostensibly to make way for those who are more openminded. I think that is unfair. Some of those very generation are one who brought about raised consciousness and change. If you feel individuals need to be "pushed out" or encouraged to rethink or whatever that is one thing. Saying every Boomer needs to be pushed out is wrong.
I'm sure you are familiar with the phrase "Destroy and Rebuild".
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Akron, OH
1,618 posts, read 1,594,669 times
Reputation: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I love your name, and as a fellow "mathguy" I was attempting to inform the dopes that believe this is racism about the coaching statistics, the general population of blacks and how they jive with each other.

What I can't WAIT to hear from someone like yourself, is how do you interpret the black demographics of the actual players (It is roughly 65-70% black athletes in NFL)? If you turn this same question around and pose it to these same people they will quickly say everything is meritorious and there is no evidence of racism, despite the over representation being 5 times the demographics of general population.

Care to expound? (I am befriending you btw)
Did you even read this article?
Dan Rooney defends the rule that bears his name, hints at expansion | ProFootballTalk

It totally explains how the NFL evaluates coaches and how they evaluate players.
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