Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That fact that you need me to expand a bit is what's scary, seeing you are in the medical field. Listen every vice has it's price, if you want to smoke because the "high" from it is better, mellow, what ever, then go for it but stop selling it as a risk free wonder vice. It's not true.
If you are a habitual vice user it just comes down to which negative side effects do you want when you're old, the ones from drinking, or smoking. Take your pick.
Not to mention the ones you can have immediately. Get real. Life's full of choices, at least make them well informed.....and accept reality.
Every choice we make has a negative side. My biggest pet peeve about pot smokers is their pot is healthy fantasy. FYI: It's not healthier than not smoking it.
...which not all users of cannabis are. Not by a wide margin. Personally I'm a fan of Terrance McKenna's advice on the plant: use it only a few times (three?) per year; when you do, use a lot of it at the time; use it to alter your own consciousness, to gain perspective, to address and reflect on aspects of your life and your choices and your relationships; and use it safely, respect its power, and ensure the optimum Mindset and Setting when using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
It just comes down to which negative side effects do you want when you're old, the ones from drinking, or smoking
I'll take 'The Ones from Smoking' for $200, Alex. Although I would like to point out that smoking is certainly not the only Route of Administration for this particular substance -- vaping (including the new E-Njoint as well as conventional vaping systems) and ingesting after cooking are both worthwhile RoAs. At any rate, I would personally much rather have experienced the self-examination and ideation of cannabis when I'm old than the relatively worthless effects of alcohol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
It's not healthier than not smoking it.
But infrequent, responsible, entheogenic usage (see above) may have benefits that are well worth the small health risk. Risk / reward. Riding my motorcycle is not healthier than not riding it, either, but the risk / reward equation is well worth it to me. A whole lot of the things that are worth doing have risks.
I've seen cannabis usage open eyes and change people for the better. I would assert the same with other psychedelic substances, such as Psilocybin, Methoxetamine, DMT, etc. My experimentation with cannabis forever changed my appreciation of art and music. I shudder to think what my understanding and level of open-mindedness toward art would be today had I never dabbled.
"Health" is a bit over-rated. That's not to say it's not important at all, but at a certain point you're already on the trail of the long decline toward death. We're all of us doomed to disease, decrepitness, and death. Just living too long is extremely "unhealthy."
2. Anyone who has never tried cannabis but enjoys music -- you need to get yourself to a place where you can try, just to understand what you've been missing. I have a theory that some audiophiles -- myself included -- are trying [in vain] to compensate for the fact that at some point in our lives we experienced the profound music euphoria, the amazing instrument separation and enveloping soundstage, the closed-eye visuals that perfectly match the audio that is music on a decent sound system on cannabis (particularly sativa). We're after that sound, but we'll never get it without the cannabis.
Comparing alcohol and weed seems silly, they are too different. But the effects of alcohol are more predictable. Drunk is drunk. I know exactly what will happen if I have more than a few drinks. Weed is different, the high can be very different depending on the type and other factors. The bad experience that can occur from using the wrong weed for you is worse than being hung over from cheap wine. It is a more individualized experience and a person that is not sensitive to weed is not going to understand how someone more sensitive to it might be affected. It is very different for everyone, like psychotropic meds are very different depending on your individual brain chemistry. It can be a very bad and overwhelming experience for people who are already naturally sensitive/conscious so it should not be presented as totally benign and mellow or chill.
And boring. And not very interesting. And not even a little eye-opening or perspective-broadening. Yawn...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane
Weed is different, the high can be very different depending on the type and other factors. The bad experience that can occur from using the wrong weed for you is worse than being hung over from cheap wine. It is a more individualized experience and a person that is not sensitive to weed is not going to understand how someone more sensitive to it might be affected. It is very different for everyone, like psychotropic meds are very different depending on your individual brain chemistry. It can be a very bad and overwhelming experience for people who are already naturally sensitive/conscious so it should not be presented as totally benign and mellow or chill.
Can't disagree.
But, I believe I can sum up everything you said with this:
That fact that you need me to expand a bit is what's scary, seeing you are in the medical field. Listen every vice has it's price, if you want to smoke because the "high" from it is better, mellow, what ever, then go for it but stop selling it as a risk free wonder vice. It's not true.
If you are a habitual vice user it just comes down to which negative side effects do you want when you're old, the ones from drinking, or smoking. Take your pick.
Not to mention the ones you can have immediately. Get real. Life's full of choices, at least make them well informed.....and accept reality.
Every choice we make has a negative side. My biggest pet peeve about pot smokers is their pot is healthy fantasy. FYI: It's not healthier than not smoking it.
I don't think a single person on here said it was healthier than not smoking it (of course with many medical diagnoses, smoking it is healthier than not). I know there are far less severe side and long-term use effects with pot than alcohol, it's not even up for debate, it's fact. I don't think it's harmless, but neither do I think it's particularly harmful and I see nothing contradictory for me being in healthcare and using it. It's far less harmful and toxic than sugar.
That fact that you need me to expand a bit is what's scary, seeing you are in the medical field. Listen every vice has it's price, if you want to smoke because the "high" from it is better, mellow, what ever, then go for it but stop selling it as a risk free wonder vice. It's not true.
If you are a habitual vice user it just comes down to which negative side effects do you want when you're old, the ones from drinking, or smoking. Take your pick.
Not to mention the ones you can have immediately. Get real. Life's full of choices, at least make them well informed.....and accept reality.
Every choice we make has a negative side. My biggest pet peeve about pot smokers is their pot is healthy fantasy. FYI: It's not healthier than not smoking it.
Weed smokers who also smoke cigarettes have a lower cancer rate than those who only smoke cigarettes.
I've said before that I am not a friend of cannabis. I basically lost both my sons and my wife as collateral damage. My first son became mentally ill and finally committed suicide on January 14 this year after struggling with mental health soon after he started using cannabis. My second son started using (read abusing) cannabis around the same time. He got into trouble with the law and lost all he had worked for as a youth. He then started a careerer path as a commercial pilot but weed destroyed that. All he has to show for it is a massive debt. He was a damn good pilot as a student. OK so one can't blame the parents for breaking up as a result of one kid going berserk on drugs but trust me, this is quite common as I found out in talking with others who have been through the same turmoil.
There has been recent studies on the effects of cannabis and its not pretty. It has been found that a teenager starting on cannabis can lose 6 to 8 points on the intelligence scale! Do I believe the results? Well, I've been there seen that. Yes I do believe it. My own kids are not the only examples I've witnessed. I've been around quite a few individuals who have 'gone to pot' on cannabis. More than just a few! I cannot say I have witnessed anyone improving in any way on cannabis. Maybe those individuals just don't make themselves obvious - I can't say one way or the other.
Then again, I only know of one individual who can claim to have had some possible health benefits from moderate alcohol consumption and that's me. I do get the impression though that it takes quite a lot of alcohol to do the damage one sees from cannabis. But then again I've seen a lot of people with a lot of damage from a lot of alcohol! I'm not sure that alcohol does more collateral damage though. Road accidents for example.
So for me the jury is still out as to which is worse. This of course leaves little or no room for either drug actually enhancing the consciousness. One might feel like it's enhancing but casual observers might disagree. When I was a casual observer I never once witnessed the 'enhanced conciousness' effect. Not with alcohol or cannabis. With cannabis I witnessed stupidity and with alcohol stupidity and aggression (the aggression was quite rare though).
Correction, I have seen one individual seeming to improve on cannabis. My own son. He 'normalized' when he had just a small amount (I've mentioned this before). It did not enhance his conscientiousness though. Overall it did him no good in that it likely induced his mental illness. Cannabis and alcohol.
There is what you choose to believe and then there is the truth..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
I've said before that I am not a friend of cannabis. I basically lost both my sons and my wife as collateral damage. My first son became mentally ill and finally committed suicide on January 14 this year after struggling with mental health soon after he started using cannabis. My second son started using (read abusing) cannabis around the same time. He got into trouble with the law and lost all he had worked for as a youth. He then started a careerer path as a commercial pilot but weed destroyed that. All he has to show for it is a massive debt. He was a damn good pilot as a student. OK so one can't blame the parents for breaking up as a result of one kid going berserk on drugs but trust me, this is quite common as I found out in talking with others who have been through the same turmoil.
There has been recent studies on the effects of cannabis and its not pretty. It has been found that a teenager starting on cannabis can lose 6 to 8 points on the intelligence scale! Do I believe the results? Well, I've been there seen that. Yes I do believe it. My own kids are not the only examples I've witnessed. I've been around quite a few individuals who have 'gone to pot' on cannabis. More than just a few! I cannot say I have witnessed anyone improving in any way on cannabis. Maybe those individuals just don't make themselves obvious - I can't say one way or the other.
Then again, I only know of one individual who can claim to have had some possible health benefits from moderate alcohol consumption and that's me. I do get the impression though that it takes quite a lot of alcohol to do the damage one sees from cannabis. But then again I've seen a lot of people with a lot of damage from a lot of alcohol! I'm not sure that alcohol does more collateral damage though. Road accidents for example.
So for me the jury is still out as to which is worse. This of course leaves little or no room for either drug actually enhancing the consciousness. One might feel like it's enhancing but casual observers might disagree. When I was a casual observer I never once witnessed the 'enhanced conciousness' effect. Not with alcohol or cannabis. With cannabis I witnessed stupidity and with alcohol stupidity and aggression (the aggression was quite rare though).
First, let me just say I'm sorry that you lost your son, but nothing you have said makes cannabis the responsible party. It is just as likely that he was already starting to feel the signs of mental illness and was self medicating with cannabis to help him control the symptoms, until that did not work anymore.
This is the worst kind of post on so many levels. Anecdotal evidence is not proof, nor is coincidence, nor is the presence or linkage between cannabis and any behavior proof of anything.
You need to consider that cannabis is less addictive than caffeine. Since it is that weak, that says something about people that would "let" it destroy their lives. Here's a clue, "it" didn't, they did. They made bad choices (making a drug the central motivation in their lives to the exclusion of all else) and had bad results, what a surprise!
Your other son got in trouble with the law. That was his decision. I don't believe the laws on cannabis are reasonable, but it is the enforcement of these laws that ruined your son's prospects, not this weakly addictive plant.
Many people that lose a child, divorce. I believe that it is more likely that the death of your son, and not his use of cannabis that contributed to your divorce.
The study you refer to is not very reliable because the researchers did not fully take into account economic status, use of other substances, like alcohol, and other mitigating factors that could have altered the results. I've read the actual study, not some newspaper reporters interpretation.
How would you know if someone had enhanced consciousness? If one person claimed they could hear better or could see colors more vibrantly, how would you know it was not true?
I've witnessed some silly things while people were under the influence of cannabis, but never stupidity, but then the difference could be in the company we keep, and not what either group were ingesting.
All alcohol use causes negative effects. All of it. Some moderate use of beer or wine may offer some health benefit, but alcohol is a poison. Cannabis use also has positive health effects, but it is not a poison. No matter how much cannabis you use, you will not die from it. Alcohol users can not say that.
In your situation and with your experience it must be very difficult to be impartial, but putting that aside, you need to do more research about cannabis and alcohol before you reach any conclusions, because, so far, you are missing the mark.
You still need to do more research, this is not research
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
Correction, I have seen one individual seeming to improve on cannabis. My own son. He 'normalized' when he had just a small amount (I've mentioned this before). It did not enhance his conscientiousness though. Overall it did him no good in that it likely induced his mental illness. Cannabis and alcohol.
Alcohol alone can cause mental illness. There is a name for it. When you are ready to do some research, look up "alcohol dementia".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Get real. Life's full of choices, at least make them well informed.....and accept reality. 
There is what you choose to believe and then there is the truth..
