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...but I notice the common assumption here seems to be that we're talking about young men. The first guy was 47, the second was 40. I'd have thought guys from my generation would've been raised with better manners, in general.
But maybe they're trying to act younger, and in so doing, are adopting the apathetic and inconsiderate attitudes toward social interaction that, if what's being said here is true, are more common among twentysomethings.
I have no clue why women have allowed themselves to be treated this way. By that, I don't mean you in particular. Instead, I'm speaking of the gender. It seems that the expectations women have of men have markedly declined over the past thirty years or so. So you have the guys mentioned in the OP who feel they can get away with really unacceptable things.
Hey, I'm not saying that women should be put on a pedestal or treated like some fragile vase, but basic courtesy matters. If some guy is inconsiderate now in the opening stages of dating, what the heck do you think it will be like when the relationship is in full flower? Nope, the the first time he does it to you, it's his fault. If he does it to you a second time, it's your fault because you allowed it the first time.
It goes back to simple respect for others, and expecting the same for yourself.
...but I notice the common assumption here seems to be that we're talking about young men. The first guy was 47, the second was 40. I'd have thought guys from my generation would've been raised with better manners, in general.
But maybe they're trying to act younger, and in so doing, are adopting the apathetic and inconsiderate attitudes toward social interaction that, if what's being said here is true, are more common among twentysomethings.
...but I notice the common assumption here seems to be that we're talking about young men. The first guy was 47, the second was 40. I'd have thought guys from my generation would've been raised with better manners, in general.
But maybe they're trying to act younger, and in so doing, are adopting the apathetic and inconsiderate attitudes toward social interaction that, if what's being said here is true, are more common among twentysomethings.
I wouldn't say they are trying to act younger, I think they just adapted to this new way of communication, or non-communication in this case.
Oh boy, do I have stories to share too, as I am sure many do. I met a guy recently on a dating site, out of boredom; we exchanged emails, numbers, talked on the phone. We spoke about our education, history, etc etc etc. Everything lined up time wise. On his profile, and the way he talked, he was 42. When I agreed to meet him the next night at a local wine bar, I did not buy the age. I FINALLY got him to admit that he was 53. Yes, that is right… 5 – 3 and an 11 year age difference.
I have met men out and about and then exchange phone numbers, agree to meet again and they show up like lazy couch potatoes with wrinkled shirts and flip flops!
Men have come to expect (and women actually like it) that women put some effort into their appearance…. Clothes, grooming, etc etc etc. I want to know when are men going to put the same effort in? I have gone on 2nd and 3rd dates where our looks did not even compliment one another and I felt totally uncomfortable and overdressed, yet amazed that he did not even think to put on a nice pair of slacks or something.
Like another said here, I would have given the second guy some slack about the phone call. It is what it is though. But I am with you on most everything else!
You're not being out of line. Being on time or at least acknowledging your lateness is the most basic of courtesy. If you're lacking in this respect, you have no conscious or respect for other people. Normally the guys I've been on dates with have all been respectful and polite, but I did go on this one date with a guy who was about 25 minutes late and he didn't call or text, and showed up with a big smile on his face, unapologetic, as if nothing had happened. I was pretty upset at that point because I myself had calculated I was going to be about 5 minutes late so I had texted him to let him know and even took a taxi to avoid being late (shelled out $20 on that alone). Luckily he's an exception as most men I meet aren't that disrespectful.
Also, it has nothing to do with techonology or that times are changing, manners and politeness will never go out of style.
To address the couple of people who think I shouldn't be so hard on the second guy...
First of all, we made a "date" for him to call me within a certain timeframe, and it was clear that window was set specifically due to my schedule requirements.
Second, it's not like there was any important or unexpected conflict that came up at the last minute and prevented him from calling me at the agreed-upon time; he just decided to go for a bike ride instead.
Third, he made the in-your-face-rude move of very casually telling me he'd spent the time when our call was supposed to take place out on a bike ride instead. He might as well have said, "I know I agreed to call you between 5 and 8:30, but I decided to do something else instead and figured you could just talk to me whenever I felt like it."
Why agree to a specific timeframe, knowing about the other person's schedule/kid constraints, and then not honor the agreement? In my book, that's very inconsiderate behavior.
And like the title of this thread hints, I expected a little bit better behavior at the stage where the couple are supposed to be trying to make a good first impression on one another.
...because I am not rude or inconsiderate and keep the dates I set, I stayed home, waiting by the phone, the whole three and a half hours of the window we'd agreed upon.
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Sifu -
In my book, that's very inconsiderate behavior. 
