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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
The cost of a studio apartment would be in the ball park of splitting rents, at least here it is I've spent some time looking, in my area 2 bedroom apartment go for about 2k a month some more some less.
So if your splitting the rent you're at 1k a month, I've seen studio's listed around that price maybe a tad more, so why not just get a studio and shine living with some other person that most likely will get on your nerves after a while??
I think this is pretty variable, here a studio in a decent area is going to be $1300-1500 more often than not, a one bedroom 1500-2000, while you can also get 3 bedrooms for $2500 or 4 bedrooms for $3000. So, $750plus 1/4th utilities vs $1300 plus 100% utilities can easily be $6-8k a year difference. There is a premium on 2 bedroom apartments, so often there is not much savings there, maybe a few hundred a month and 50% utilities.
Still, that difference comes to a really nice two week vacation a year. Of course, I'd take roommates over a studio anyday, unless it is a big loft style one in which case it would be as much as a one bedroom.
Ultimately, some people are going to be dismissed for spurious and superficial reasons. This can't be helped. Don't have your own place? To some, this bespeaks irresponsibility and/or poor judgment. To others, it's frugality and practicality.
Another example: I'm in quite decent physical shape (fitness and all that), but I am missing two front teeth, and a third front tooth is ingrown ridiculously askance. Some people would dismiss me instantly, first for the aesthetic defect, and secondly because of implications about my values and character. Others would find the good musculature etc. (if I say so myself...) to override the oral iniquity.
The bigger question here, is not whether people are picky and choosy for personal and poorly-defensible reasons, but whether the acceptability for such judgmental behavior is gendered. Or in other words, whether it's OK for women to dismiss men with roommates, but not vice versa. To this I respond that it shouldn't be OK, in theory, if we are serious about gender-equality. But if it so happens, that this remains a latent prejudice, where women get to judge but men don't - then I say, from narrowly selfish reasons, keep on judging! Why? Because as a guy with his own house, I'd stand to benefit.
The bigger question here, is not whether people are picky and choosy for personal and poorly-defensible reasons, but whether the acceptability for such judgmental behavior is gendered. Or in other words, whether it's OK for women to dismiss men with roommates, but not vice versa. To this I respond that it shouldn't be OK, in theory, if we are serious about gender-equality. But if it so happens, that this remains a latent prejudice, where women get to judge but men don't - then I say, from narrowly selfish reasons, keep on judging! Why? Because as a guy with his own house, I'd stand to benefit.
Why are you trying to make this a gender issue? "Latent prejudice"? Seriously?
I think this is pretty variable, here a studio in a decent area is going to be $1300-1500 more often than not, a one bedroom 1500-2000, while you can also get 3 bedrooms for $2500 or 4 bedrooms for $3000. So, $750plus 1/4th utilities vs $1300 plus 100% utilities can easily be $6-8k a year difference. There is a premium on 2 bedroom apartments, so often there is not much savings there, maybe a few hundred a month and 50% utilities.
Still, that difference comes to a really nice two week vacation a year. Of course, I'd take roommates over a studio anyday, unless it is a big loft style one in which case it would be as much as a one bedroom.
My numbers were actually off a bit but I would still find a studio to be a better option, but as all things in life people have differing ideas of what they want. I know you said you dated in your 30's with roommate and it wasn't a problem with the women you were with, but in this very thread there were a few women that expressed that they wouldn't want to date a man in his mid 30's with roommates. I'm pretty sure that more women feel that way than are women that are ok with middle aged guys having roommates, cause 35 is pretty damn close to being middle aged. I'd also venture that more women have issues with it than you think that they do. I'd bet the farm on that actually.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,981,862 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
My numbers were actually off a bit but I would still find a studio to be a better option, but as all things in life people have differing ideas of what they want. I know you said you dated in your 30's with roommate and it wasn't a problem with the women you were with, but in this very thread there were a few women that expressed that they wouldn't want to date a man in his mid 30's with roommates. I'm pretty sure that more women feel that way than are women that are ok with middle aged guys having roommates, cause 35 is pretty damn close to being middle aged. I'd also venture that more women have issues with it than you think that they do. I'd bet the farm on that actually.
They might, but with all things dating, the critical part is are those people that might have an issue with it "my people" anyway. Are they the types that I would be interested in dating? Since it never appeared to be an issue with anyone I was interested in dating, I can only assume on that sample size, that the people I was interested in seeing aren't the type to have an issue with it. Which is pretty good as it means my picker is working. Personally, I found the saving the difference, or using it to travel, or using it on creative projects was much more fulfilling than some perceptions of minor benefits in having one's own place.
I get all this, but if you live in one of the places, pointed out on the opening graph, where, you have to maybe work 60 hours a week or just be real lucky work and money wise to have your own place, are you going to DQ a good number of men, who cannot simply RESPONSIBLY have their own apartment?
Oh, and I do respect when people handle things such as living arrangements RESPONSIBLY.
What I don't respect are people who seem to not respect what are, at the end of the day, my personal preferences in dating. I should be uncomfortable staying at someone's place because they're being RESPONSIBLE? Nah. Life's too short to put myself into such a situation.
If you're independent then what difference does it make if you live with a parent or a roommate? And what if one just mooches off their roommate?
Living with parents does not imply dependence and neither does living with a roommate imply independence.
Flawed logic.
For, I would hazard to say, the majority of people in this type of situation, roommates v. Mom's house t is a VERY VERY VERY different dynamic.
Living with parents: You are still the child living in the parents' home. They are still going to play the same old tapes over and over again ("You live in my house, you play by my rules..." "Why don't you get a haircut?") that keep them as dominant, and you as a very big child (the single biggest factor in why, no, you won't be operating in the same "independent" way as in the roommate situation). Other times the parents try to say silent in order to give you your space and allow you to be an adult but you can feel their eyes burning into you anyway and you don't miss a single on of the aggrieved, mournful shakings of the head or eyerolls between Mom and Dad. And these are humiliating and pizz-off-worthy and when you bring them up to the parents the parents give you "What? I didn't do anything" shocked reactions and you get more frustrated and so do they and...Lather, rinse, repeat. (What the hell do you think the things are that launch most reasonable, independent, healthy young adults from their parents' homes in the first place?)
You leave your laundry in the washer without putting it into the dryer and either Mom switches it over for you or she nags you like a Mom about it, keeping you the child no matter how old you get. You take the last of the deli meat and either Dad doesn't say anything (try this with a roommate!) or he lectures you like you're 11 about the value of a dollar and blah blah. My God the list goes on of aggravating dynamics even in healthy families which, if the child is living in the home, do not go away just because the child is now over 18...they just get more infuriating, aggravating and restrictive. And again, the worst part...they keep you a child. They keep you in that place where Mommy is scolding you. Forever. And can we just be real here? Actually wanting this dynamic, and/or being too lazy or too scared to get out of it by 35, is part of what makes this sort of person so very unattractive to many women. That's just honesty. Who wants to give up the goods for Baby Huey, the Boy Who Never Grew Up?
Even entirely separate living (say, the entire "basement" is yours...or whatever) doesn't necessarily negate these things. There is still a lady upstairs terrified if you didn't get home yet and you still know this and so does she. No, these exact things don't happen to this exact extent with every single adult child/parent homeowner situation, but you get the gist.
With a roommate situation, you hold your own (generally). NOBODY is offering to wash your clothes, trust me. Short on funds to pay your 1/3 of the electric bill this month? No "This is the LAST time I spot you the money, young man..." Instead it's, "Well, we can't live this way, so sorry...you're out." It's little things like that which entirely separate an "I'm living with mom as an adult" from "I'm living in a roommate situation where a whole lot is expected of me."
Sure, there must be a few very, very mature, very separated, and very independent adult child/parent homeowner situations. Let me repeat that. A VERY few. All those issues that so many people talk about living with their parents before adulthood? Those don't go away. And they're not rare. And they don't generally decrease when the child is above 21. In fact, they often get worse...and more restrictive...and more difficult to deal with. You can't give your adult child a time out or take away his phone for not paying his 1/3 of the phone bill.
So, nope. Not flawed logic, but reality.
Oh. Re: "What if one just mooches off a roommate?" Well, if it's an expensive mooch, expect the police to show up. If it's any other sort of mooch, expect to be out on your butt looking for a new place.
I think he is trying to speak to potential double standards.
On this particular issue, I do think there kind of is a double standard. I think, in what I have observed in my life, there is more societal pressure on men to be self reliant than there is on women.
My 27 y/o sister lives with her daughter at my parents' house. My 25 y/o brother lives in the basement of my parents' house with his GF. Guess who gets more flack for living at home and not being able to support themselves on their own?
I also have two female cousins in their 20s/30s who live at home with their parents. Again, not an issue.
My 31 y/o male friend lives with his parents even though he has a FT job that pays probably somewhere around $40k. He gets ragged on constantly by his brother and other male buddies for living at home.
I don't want to generalize completely, but I can say that in my observation, men get way more flack for living at home in their 20s and 30s than women do.
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