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It's a difference in cultures. Americans have been taught from a very young age that total self-dependence and individualism is the foundation and definition of a successful adulthood.
In my part of the world, houses are cheap – but so are apartments. The real cost of housing is in the maintenance. I bought my property 15 years ago, and it's still worth LESS today that it did back then. But maintenance costs mount. Still, the locals deprecate renting as a "sucker's game", and something downmarket. Lots of marginally employed people are struggling as homeowners, mistakenly thinking that they're getting ahead; whereas in reality they'd be better off renting an apartment… or even better buying that house, but doing so across generational and family lines.
I've seen several young men – who have no problem dating – mired in the labor and expense of house-ownership. Their lifestyle would be better suited to renting, but they refuse to do so, from hardscrabble country pride. I've also seen men exiting fractious and expensive divorces, and immediately buying a house. I don't begrudge them a speedy recovery from divorce, and wish them all of the best… but why be weighed down with a house? It's the prevailing culture.
I'm all in favor of self-reliance and personal responsibility. But the greater objective is economic vitality, by frugal living and long-term financial planning. Sometimes, an irascibly fanatical independence is just dumb. Sometimes, privacy – while not necessarily expensive to achieve – just isn't rationally justified.
Whether I am dating, or just chatting with somebody as a friend (male or female, young or old), I most respect the rational choice – which may or may not be the maximally independent choice. But in America, and especially in middle-America, we've so fetishized and glorified independence, that we insist on it, even when financially it is irresponsible.
In my part of the world, houses are cheap – but so are apartments. The real cost of housing is in the maintenance. I bought my property 15 years ago, and it's still worth LESS today that it did back then. But maintenance costs mount. Still, the locals deprecate renting as a "sucker's game", and something downmarket. Lots of marginally employed people are struggling as homeowners, mistakenly thinking that they're getting ahead; whereas in reality they'd be better off renting an apartment… or even better buying that house, but doing so across generational and family lines.
I've seen several young men – who have no problem dating – mired in the labor and expense of house-ownership. Their lifestyle would be better suited to renting, but they refuse to do so, from hardscrabble country pride. I've also seen men exiting fractious and expensive divorces, and immediately buying a house. I don't begrudge them a speedy recovery from divorce, and wish them all of the best… but why be weighed down with a house? It's the prevailing culture.
I'm all in favor of self-reliance and personal responsibility. But the greater objective is economic vitality, by frugal living and long-term financial planning. Sometimes, an irascibly fanatical independence is just dumb. Sometimes, privacy – while not necessarily expensive to achieve – just isn't rationally justified.
Whether I am dating, or just chatting with somebody as a friend (male or female, young or old), I most respect the rational choice – which may or may not be the maximally independent choice. But in America, and especially in middle-America, we've so fetishized and glorified independence, that we insist on it, even when financially it is irresponsible.
I purchased a place because rent in my neck of the woods was increasing $100-$500/mo each year. A mortgage payment is far cheaper than renting where I live. It's because the area (Denver) experienced a huge influx of transplants moving here from the Midwest, California and the east coast between 2008-2016. The hikes are forecasted for the foreseeable future as well, so it was the right choice for me. Plus, it should make as a good rental unit in 5-10 years when I move into something else. For me, it was more than just a place to live. It was an investment into an asset that I hope will continue to make me money down the road.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Analyst
I purchased a place because rent in my neck of the woods was increasing $100-$500/mo each year. A mortgage payment is far cheaper than renting where I live. It's because the area (Denver) experienced a huge influx of transplants moving here from the Midwest, California and the east coast between 2008-2016. The hikes are forecasted for the foreseeable future as well, so it was the right choice for me. Plus, it should make as a good rental unit in 5-10 years when I move into something else. For me, it was more than just a place to live. It was an investment into an asset that I hope will continue to make me money down the road.
I think buying is the right choice for me now, thank god I tucked away that money I saved having roommates. But I'll do a condo. There is a big downside to owning though (well many) is that it decreases ability to relocate. For school and work I've ended up living in 7 different states since I was 18. That wouldn't be very feasible if I burdened myself with owning.
I purchased a place because rent in my neck of the woods was increasing $100-$500/mo each year. A mortgage payment is far cheaper than renting where I live. It's because the area (Denver) experienced a huge influx of transplants moving here from the Midwest, California and the east coast between 2008-2016. The hikes are forecasted for the foreseeable future as well, so it was the right choice for me. Plus, it should make as a good rental unit in 5-10 years when I move into something else. For me, it was more than just a place to live. It was an investment into an asset that I hope will continue to make me money down the road.
There's tax advantages to owning property too, I was getting to a point where I was making better money and needed to some write off's, the simple filing of the 1040ez form wasn't cutting it, so tax advantages and future equity growth is what drove me. I don't have any plans to rent out our place, I've heard tons and tons of nightmare stories from guys I know that's done that, so I'm avoiding that path. I'm hoping to sell in a few yrs and relocate out of state, I just hope I can time the market ups and downs appropriately.
I don't disagree with you about having preferences and standards. However, the message that seems to be conveyed on this thread is that roommates = you're a broke loser. That's just not true IME. Some people like having roommates simply for the fact that they have company and someone to talk to. Some people do it to save a little money up or invest, like me. Some people like having a roommate because it makes living in a particularly high demand area possible, like my GF. There are valid reasons for people choosing to have a roommate. It does not make one a loser, so let's stop painting it as such just because it's not one's own preference.
I always got the impression people value privacy, especially when it comes to intimacy. There's a certain freedom one has having sex when there's less people living in the same place. But everyone is different and not everyone minds.
I hope the older adults with room mates are saving a lot for their retirement. Less than 30 working years in this thread.
I think a lot of perceptions will changed when millennials age. It looks like this would be the generation poorer than Gen X or baby boomers. Women are likely to become a lot less picky if they want to date anyone.
Eventually, the boomers will die off and the Millennials will inherit the earth. There is no reason to believe they won't be the richest-ever generation. They will have more income and wealth stratification than boomers but the d-bag Goldman-Sachs finance guys will all be millennials. I can remember saying that there was no way I'd ever be able to afford the house I grew up in at age 25. That changed. We all want immediate gratification but it doesn't work that way.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockyman
I always got the impression people value privacy, especially when it comes to intimacy. There's a certain freedom one has having sex when there's less people living in the same place. But everyone is different and not everyone minds.
I hope the older adults with room mates are saving a lot for their retirement. Less than 30 working years in this thread.
It's funny, because after the gym I was talking to one of my best friends and she's going to her lovers (I dunno, a guy she's been seeing about 4 mos) places tonight. She lives alone now, but likes going to his place despite having a roommate. His place is nicer and he's a professional chef and loves to cook in his kichen. Maybe that's the reason for the exception? I dunno, but she certainly hasn't let dudes having roommates get in the way of sleeping with them. She's 39. Not sure how old he is.
There's tax advantages to owning property too, I was getting to a point where I was making better money and needed to some write off's, the simple filing of the 1040ez form wasn't cutting it, so tax advantages and future equity growth is what drove me. I don't have any plans to rent out our place, I've heard tons and tons of nightmare stories from guys I know that's done that, so I'm avoiding that path. I'm hoping to sell in a few yrs and relocate out of state, I just hope I can time the market ups and downs appropriately.
I love itemizing! Plus I now pay less owning a house than I would renting an apartment and that includes taxes and insurance.
As for the topic at hand, here's one for you. My boyfriend owns a house but he doesn't live in it and he's sharing a place with a roomate! He got the house in his divorce and his ex wife got the other. The one he got has tenants though. His living situation is long term temporary. He's talking about getting rid of the house he has now and building a new one.
As for intimacy he comes to my place. He stays here a lot. When his roomate is away we go there too.
It's not ideal but it's a minor issue really.
We haven't talked about it too much about it, but he implies at some point he'd like to live together. He doesn't care for my place because it's a small row home and I live in the city. I really don't like living I the city either. It's close to work for me though and I got it at the bottom of the market. He implies I will eventually live in the house he builds in the country. I love rural areas so it sounds like a dream to me. Bit that's a way off if it happens.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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I am trying to figure out the paying less owning than renting. Never been able to make that work, not living in a similar place. When you add up repairs, maintenance, and all the little things... and property tax of course, then you subtract the opportunity cost of the 20% downpayment, I've always found there needs to be significant property value growth to make that work... and there is no paying me for the headaches either.
I am trying to figure out the paying less owning than renting. Never been able to make that work, not living in a similar place. When you add up repairs, maintenance, and all the little things... and property tax of course, then you subtract the opportunity cost of the 20% downpayment, I've always found there needs to be significant property value growth to make that work... and there is no paying me for the headaches either.
Timing and luck is about the best you can hope for. Timing as in buying a while back, not quite as much right now.
I've worked the numbers and for our situation we're gonna make out like a big dawg, almost to the point of it appearing to be bragging. I'm not, but we got really lucky and bought a good while back and we bought at the bottom of the market, it was starting to slowly ramp up, at the peak before the market crashed in 2007/8 our units were selling for three and a half times what we paid for them.
You can work in maintenance costs and taxes etc etc all day, but it doesn't touch the investment return we saw, even now with the market leveling out and correcting we're still sitting really pretty, so I think it's luck and location as a lot of locations don't appreciate as other do, podunkville Iowa isn't the same as LA or NYC or whatever. Location location location as the old saying goes.
Different scenarios abound, ours was just a matter of luck actually.
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