CDR Chat Thread #31 (young, sex, calling, daughter)

[moongirl00]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Of course it's not bad advice. It's something we all should always be doing. And I never ever implied being healthy is bad advice.

Linking it, at an individual level (not a population level), as a reason why a particular outcome was seen, and as an excuse to not vaccinated just makes no scientific sense. You have zero idea that what you did helped. To do that, you would need many copies of you, and have a control group and treatment group, and then statistically analyze the results of the different regimes. Even then it would be a stretch to pinpoint the result to the cause at an individual copy level.

I run 20-25 miles a week. Don't smoke. Watch my diet. Weight train religiously. None of those are rationales to not vaccinate. Just like having had covid is not a scientific rationale to not vaccinate. Presenting this as a decision to live a healthy life vs vaccinating is a false dichotomy.

Sure, its anecdotal evidence. But lots of people use anecdotal evidence here.

Also evidence starts at the individual level. Maybe they haven't done controlled studies on this, but if I can share my own experience, then I will.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by moongirl00

Sure, its anecdotal evidence. But lots of people use anecdotal evidence here.

Also evidence starts at the individual level. Maybe they haven't done controlled studies on this, but if I can share my own experience, then I will.

They have done controlled studies examining health and fitness levels, and on previously having covid. So why not listen to the epidemiologists and scientists that have done them (repeatedly), and take their advice?

That's the part I'm missing.

Anecdotal "evidence" vs large scale scientific studies.... scientific studies are logically chosen every time.

I get that you won't and don't want to get the vaccine. For whatever reason. It's your choice. It's the mental gymnastics trying to rationalize that is perplexing.

[moongirl00]

Originally Posted by timberline742

They have done controlled studies examining health and fitness levels, and on previously having covid. So why not listen to the epidemiologists and scientists that have done them (repeatedly), and take their advice?

That's the part I'm missing.

Anecdotal "evidence" vs large scale scientific studies.... scientific studies are logically chosen every time.

I get that you won't and don't want to get the vaccine. For whatever reason. It's your choice. It's the mental gymnastics trying to rationalize that is perplexing.

My reasons are mostly that we simply do not know the long term effects of this vaccine. Its only been out a year, the long term data simply doesn't exist.

Will it cause auto immune disorders down the line, heart disease, lymphoma, cancer.....we just don't know!

Its possible it wont but its a gamble to take that risk.

Choose your gamble, thats what it comes down to.

If the sort term reward that if you do get Covid the disease will be mild, is worth the risk of possible longer term effects, then the decision to get the vaxx is probably the right one for you.

If you are pretty healthy and don't need the protection because you have reasons to believe you can fight it on your own, and you want to live 50+ more years and don't want to deal with possible delayed health effects, then the decision to get vaxxed might not be right for you.

I fall into the latter category because I think I just come from pretty sturdy genetic stock plus I take care of my health.

Everyone should make the decision for themselves.

This strong arming "Get vaxxed, its the only right decision!" Doesn't sit well with me.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by timberline742

They have done controlled studies examining health and fitness levels, and on previously having covid. So why not listen to the epidemiologists and scientists that have done them (repeatedly), and take their advice?

That's the part I'm missing.

Anecdotal "evidence" vs large scale scientific studies.... scientific studies are logically chosen every time.

I get that you won't and don't want to get the vaccine. For whatever reason. It's your choice. It's the mental gymnastics trying to rationalize that is perplexing.

I dunno, I don't see it as all that perplexing. I think that a person can find something online that appears to be credible, to support almost any position they want to take. And when someone is dug in, no amount of knocking down their sources is going to change their mind.

The stuff I've read appears to be credible to me. And yet, the "official" science for drugs in the past has later been proven inadequate or wrong, there are class action suits that reflect drugs that were widely accepted and used and the scientific community said that they were fine, and later it was found that they caused harm.

And once something is injected into you, that's it, there's no going back from that decision.

And I gotta say, it's been scary times to live in America dude. It takes very little imagination to think of a dozen nefarious possibilities. "Natural" seems...feels...safer. Although, as a scientist-writer I follow on social media likes to say, "There are a ton of ways that Nature can and happily will kill you."

EDIT: ...point being, even if I don't agree, I kinda understand.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by moongirl00

My reasons are mostly that we simply do not know the long term effects of this vaccine. Its only been out a year, the long term data simply doesn't exist.

Will it cause auto immune disorders down the line, heart disease, lymphoma, cancer.....we just don't know!

Its possible it wont but its a gamble to take that risk.

Choose your gamble, thats what it comes down to.

If the sort term reward that if you do get Covid the disease will be mild, is worth the risk of possible longer term effects, then the decision to get the vaxx is probably the right one for you.

If you are pretty healthy and don't need the protection because you have reasons to believe you can fight it on your own, and you want to live 50+ more years and don't want to deal with possible delayed health effects, then the decision to get vaxxed might not be right for you.

I fall into the latter category because I think I just come from pretty sturdy genetic stock plus I take care of my health.

Everyone should make the decision for themselves.

This strong arming "Get vaxxed, its the only right decision!" Doesn't sit well with me.

Just a note: mRNA vaccine have been tested on people for over a decade. So we have that safety data.

[moongirl00]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

I dunno, I don't see it as all that perplexing. I think that a person can find something online that appears to be credible, to support almost any position they want to take. And when someone is dug in, no amount of knocking down their sources is going to change their mind.

The stuff I've read appears to be credible to me. And yet, the "official" science for drugs in the past has later been proven inadequate or wrong, there are class action suits that reflect drugs that were widely accepted and used and the scientific community said that they were fine, and later it was found that they caused harm.

And once something is injected into you, that's it, there's no going back from that decision.

And I gotta say, it's been scary times to live in America dude. It takes very little imagination to think of a dozen nefarious possibilities. "Natural" seems...feels...safer. Although, as a scientist-writer I follow on social media likes to say, "There are a ton of ways that Nature can and happily will kill you."

EDIT: ...point being, even if I don't agree, I kinda understand.

You are exactly right. I can always change mind down the line and get vaxxed.

But you can't go back from being vaxxed.

Once thats injected in you, thats it. No way to undo it.

If the powers that be one day go "Oooops! You're all gonna get cancer! Our bad!"

Well you consented to it, the consequences are on you.

Though there are a lot of people who have been mandated or coerced in various ways to get it. Those are the people I truly feel for, especially if they didn't want it but felt forced.

That said I hope on everything this vaxx is safe and has no long lasting effects.

Us unvaxxed aren't just being difficult or trying to prolong this pandemic. We just are side eyers and cautious and not so quick to trust.

[Mikala43]

In all fairness, when one says "I learned how to boost my immune system on YouTube", that doesn't sound like you learned that exercise and diet is good for you.

[moongirl00]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

In all fairness, when one says "I learned how to boost my immune system on YouTube", that doesn't sound like you learned that exercise and diet is good for you.

I'm not sure what you're implying, but that's how it was for me. Especially the MedStoic Lifestyle channel with Dr. Suneel Dhand. As an internal medicine specialist his emphasis is on making healthy lifestyle choices. Preventative medicine.

I grew up with parents that were pretty health conscious. Dad was a college athlete. Mom cooked mostly low calorie meals and my family went hiking and did outdoors things as a family nearly every weekend. Sugary snacks or sodas or junk food were NEVER kept in the house.

So Dr. Dhand feels like getting back to my childhood practices which as an adult might have begun to neglect a bit. But it was a good reminder to me to follow healthy lifestyle choices.

This isn't bad advice for anyone to follow.

Of course people can get vaxxed if they feel that is right for them.

I just don't think bullying or forcing anyone is the right path.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by moongirl00

I'm not sure what you're implying, but that's how it was for me. Especially the MedStoic Lifestyle channel with Dr. Suneel Dhand. As an internal medicine specialist his emphasis is on making healthy lifestyle choices. Preventative medicine.

I grew up with parents that were pretty health conscious. Dad was a college athlete. Mom cooked mostly low calorie meals and my family went hiking and did outdoors things as a family nearly every weekend. Sugary snacks or sodas or junk food were NEVER kept in the house.

So Dr. Dhand feels like getting back to my childhood practices which as an adult might have begun to neglect a bit. But it was a good reminder to me to follow healthy lifestyle choices.

This isn't bad advice for anyone to follow.

Of course people can get vaxxed if they feel that is right for them.

I just don't think bullying or forcing anyone is the right path.

So you didn't learn how to boost your immune system, you were reminded that diet and exercise are important.

So yeah, I agree. Diet and exercise are important to general good health.

[SD4020]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

So you didn't learn how to boost your immune system, you were reminded that diet and exercise are important.

So yeah, I agree. Diet and exercise are important to general good health.

I like to call that “mitigating factors.”