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Yeah, call me old fashioned but on a first date i pay for everything. Thats just the way i roll. Probably the same on the second and even third date. I do like it when a girl offers to pay though, it shows a little pride. I mean, c'mon women, how can you get shouting for equality but still want the old chivalry too.... cant have it both ways, at least not all the time. Anyways, if the girl offers, on the first date i decline, probably decline on the second as well, but on the third i shock some by saying, "ok, its your turn." I also hate women who expect me to pick up the check. I find this cheap and its a turn off.
Yeah, call me old fashioned but on a first date i pay for everything. Thats just the way i roll. Probably the same on the second and even third date. I do like it when a girl offers to pay though, it shows a little pride. I mean, c'mon women, how can you get shouting for equality but still want the old chivalry too.... cant have it both ways, at least not all the time. Anyways, if the girl offers, on the first date i decline, probably decline on the second as well, but on the third i shock some by saying, "ok, its your turn." I also hate women who expect me to pick up the check. I find this cheap and its a turn off.
G Rizzle
There is a difference here in perspective. For me, equality is all about equal pay in the job market. That's my equality, and frankly, right now, I have that. So I'm good there, okay? Relationships between men and women? I will always expect chivalry. It's not "both ways". That's apples and oranges. I expect men to open/hold doors, walk me to my door after a date, hold my chair when I sit down at dinner...etc. Yes...I DO expect all these things. If a man asks me to "go out", it's never been presented as an offer to "hey..I'm gonna go eat at so&so's tonight...stop by if you aren't busy". THAT would be a totally different situation, and one where I would certainly expect to pay my way.
If a man asks me to go out with him, then he is offering to host my evening. If I am in a relationship with someone, then sure, I have no problem paying for our evening occasionally. But for ME, a date is about someone thinking enough of me to want to treat me to an evening. That is what a "date" is.
For those that have different thoughts, I believe the intent is that they want to redefine the traditional "date". And if that works for you, then by all means, go for what works. But I don't see that happening with many people. And if it does, and men and women no longer treat each other with any special considerations any more, then we've lost much of what makes us human. And that is a world I don't find to be very special at all.
Is it just me or is everybody taking the Venusian_Artist's points out of context?
Oh no, I get it. The problem, however, stems from the apparent suggestion that if a woman accepts anything of economic value from a man she is dating, that makes her a "free rider" who is only in it for the dough.
Specifically, VA said: "You date me because you want to be with me, not so I can buy stuff for you. If you have a problem with that, go be somebody else's princess. Clear?"
VA usually comes across as egalitarian enough, but here, he seems to be operating from the widely held assumption that a woman is a gold-digger until proven otherwise, and that it is her job to prove it by turning down gifts. Not only that, but we are assumed to be extremely petty and money-grabbing gold diggers, to the point of being willing to sleep with men we don't care for and construct elaborate and prolonged charades for the sake of a free meal at Red Lobster now and then, and some trinkets a couple of times a year. It is assumed that if we expect gifts, it is because we, being women, expect stuff, as opposed to expecting simple and innocuous tokens of love that are normal between people who are in a relationship. (Parenthetically, while I won't argue with the fact that all men here are multi-millionaires with bodies like Abercrombie & Fitch models, bank accounts that would make Dubai sheiks squeal with envy, and endowments resembling Hungarian salamis -- sorry, mods, sorry -- we know that outside this place, in the real world, precious few men dine their dates at Michelin three-star restaurants or give them Ferraris for three-week anniversaries. And by the same token, while all women on the Internet are drop-dead gorgeous and otherwise completely intoxicating and irresistible, in real life, very few have the capabilities to zombify men into supporting them in a life of luxury from the first date onward.) So Mommytotwo was entirely correct when she pointed out that dating rarely represents an "improvement in lifestyle" for a woman, and the gifts that most men give most women (including free meals) rarely amount to anything more than what these women can afford on their own without breaking a sweat. I assume that VA realizes this, yet he seems to be operating under the assumption that a woman will salivate over the smallest material item and the smallest amount of money the same way a vampire will go nuts at the sight of even a drop of blood, even if he's recently fed -- unless of course, she suppresses those natural urges, just like a "good" vampire can suppress his. The idea that a woman -- a generic, hypothetical woman -- is so incredibly greedy that she would put out and lie and cheat for months and years for the sake of anything of economic value, no matter how negligible, evidences an extremely low opinion of women in general. I would never date a man who held such an opinion -- and this would have absolutely nothing to do with my willingness to pay for a bowl of spaghetti.
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Incidentally, VA, regarding your comments on splitting the bill item by item -- it's been my experience that lovers often share at meals. You know, part of it is erotic, part is just the culinary experience, if the place is good enough. So before you shell out that dough for your "burger and fries" -- in fact, before you even eat -- make sure you count the French fries and calculate the per-fry cost, should that greedy date of yours snatch one.
Well, first off, I'm not the only one "arguing" in this thread. Secondly, the issue is not whether or not some women here want to "let" a man pay for them.
The issue is whether or not it should be expected that a man pay. Surely you understand the difference? Maybe you don't.
If you go back and the read original post, the OP said she was invited somewhere and then "surprise" she was asked to pay. (very tacky, imho) She asked if this was normal.
Several posters here have said, whoever extends the invitation, male or female, should be the one to pay. Several men here have said that they expect to pay on a first date, regardless of who asked who out. Several women here have said they offer to pay the tip or split the bill.
Whether you like it or not, men have traditionally been seen as a "the provider", thus they pay for dating to show that they are able to provide. Today, things are different. Women work and contribute to the household so in many circumstances there are two providers. Attitudes towards dating are making a shift, but the guy paying for the first date thing is still in traditionally territory.
The good news for you is that there are plenty of feminists who will like a guy who thinks she should foot her own bill. The bad news is most of them are lesbians.
A man's always supposed to pay, I think even if the woman asked him out. If this guy paid for dinner, he could have run a tab at the bar to pay for drinks too. I think he was just a cheapscape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhe1982
A guy asked me out and paid the dinner, but when we were in a bar, he told me he has no cash, and I paid for the drinks which is ok.
But no cash? why did he ask me to go to the bar after dinner and made me pay it?
I think it's interesting that Venusian is the one singled out as being an instigator, when the women are are the ones engaging in personal attacks.
Come on ladies, at least be creative with your shaming tactics. At least throw in a reference to blow up dolls or masterbation. Gotta make sure and keep us men in our "mold"
Relationships between men and women? I will always expect chivalry. It's not "both ways". That's apples and oranges. I expect men to open/hold doors, walk me to my door after a date, hold my chair when I sit down at dinner...etc. Yes...I DO expect all these things.
Notice how modern women always define chivalry in respect to men's actions. They fought hard to remove any expectations on a woman's behavior, but want men to still fit in the traditional box of what makes a "man". A woman get's to be an individual and think for herself on how she behaves, but a man must follow a script or he's not a "real man".
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