Porn is to men what romance novels/movies are to women? (kids, calling)

[NMyTree]

Originally Posted by SKP440

This one is easy. Since most romance novels are read by women, and they don't think of men as sex objects, and they NEVER let what they read either influence, or cloud their expectations romance novels (for women) are ok. Since most porn is viewed by men, they are incapable of thinking of women as anything but sex objects, and this behavior is almost ALWAYS addictive in nature and destructive to any relationship, porn then is automatically a bad thing (unless it is viewed by women who can better dicipline themselves).

This is about as huge a misconception as I have seen. Simply a large shovel full of nonsense.

There are just as many women, as there are men; who perceive things and behave in that manner.

There are millions of women who let Soap Operas and TV shows cloud their judgement and influence their lives/relationships.

It's an old, tired, antiquated cliche that women don't objectify men; as men do women.

Go to a Male Revue/Male Strip Club and watch how women behave. Then compare it to Female Go Go/Female Strip Clubs. There's more security at Male Revues/Male Strip Clubs, then there are at Female Go Go/Female Strip Clubs and the bouncers/security guys have to routinely intervine and work their butts off because women behave like lunatics at those places.

Just as many women treat and objectify men, as there are men who do women.

Women objectify men both as physical specimans/sexual objects and as financial status cash cows.

This notion that most women are not like that, is pure nonsense.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by NMyTree

This is about as huge a misconception as I have seen. Simply a large shovel full of nonsense.

There just as many women, as there are men; who perceive things and behave in that manner.

There are millions of women who let Soap Operas and TV shows cloud their judgement and influence their lives/relationships.

It's an old, tired, antiquated cliche that women don't objectify men; as men do women.

Go to a Male Revue/Male Strip Club and watch how women behave. Then compare it to Female Go Go/Female Strip Clubs. There's more security at Male Revues/Male Strip Clubs, then there are at Female Go Go/Female Strip Clubs and the bouncers/security guys have to routinely intervine and work their buts off because women behave like lunatics at those places.

Just as many women treat and objectify men, as there are men who do women.

Women objectify men both as physical specimans/sexual objects and as financial status cash cows.

This notion that most women are not like that, is pure nonsense.

Well, I'm a woman and I don't objectify men. I can't even comprehend why men objectify women. I don't undress men in my mind when I talk to them the way men claim they do women. I don't stare at his package instead of his face like men have been known to stare at my bustline when talking to me.

Given that 40% of wives out earn their husbands these days, your assessment that women see men as cash cows is what is antiquated. In case you haven't noticed, women can and do make their own way these days. Men, however, still treat us like sexual objects instead of people.

[cuinlalaland]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I don't undress men in my mind when I talk to them the way men claim they do women.

I'm a man and when I see an attractive woman my first instinct is to appreciate what I can see, not imagine what I cannot. Also the only time I look at a woman's body is from some distance away. I can't remember ever giving a woman the up-and-down perv look or staring at her boobs while I'm talking to her. But then again, I've always been discreet even shy about showing a woman that I find her physically attractive.

[NMyTree]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Well, I'm a woman and I don't objectify men. I can't even comprehend why men objectify women. I don't undress men in my mind when I talk to them the way men claim they do women. I don't stare at his package instead of his face like men have been known to stare at my bustline when talking to me.

Your perspectives and attitude towards sexuality has been well documented and expressed ....by you. Your not a prime example for representation of a rational, unselfish, fair-minded individual in the context of sexuality. So you're a moot point, here.

And if you noticed the way I phrased my words and the contents of my sentences; it was clear I wasn't painiting every individual female with the same brush. I simply stated that there are just as many women as there are men who do it. That's not a sentence or concept expressing across the board absolutes.

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Given that 40% of wives out earn their husbands these days, your assessment that women see men as cash cows is what is antiquated.

Can you backup this comment with a link to statistical proof?

And it's not an atiquated concept. Many, many women still do it. You're either kidding yourself, or you're out of touch or you're flat out lying.

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

In case you haven't noticed, women can and do make their own way these days. Men, however, still treat us like sexual objects instead of people.

And another over-dramatized, overly-defensive response from Ivorytickler.

Who said women can't and don't make their own way?

You're the only one speaking in absolutes. I specifically make a point to word my comments in a non across the board sweeping generalizational manner; because I clearly understand not all females and males behave in the same manner. Something that eludes you.

You obviously have a huge problem with sexuality and you definitely have a major complex. You come off like one of those angry, hardliner, man-hating Women's Libbers who screams about equality when you feel it works in your favor; but then call upon chivalry when you want special treatment.

Your views on sexuality don't encompass the large majority of healthy-minded women in the world. Your self-absorbed, selfish and complex-driven views are uniquely (and sadly), your own. I hope one day your husband can find a woman who truley loves him and cares about him.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by NMyTree

Your perspectives and attitude towards sexuality has been well documented and expressed ....by you. Your not a prime example for representation of a rational, unselfish, fair-minded individual in the context of sexuality. So you're a moot point, here.

And if you noticed the way I phrased my words and the contents of my sentences; it was clear I wasn't painiting every individual female with the same brush. I simply stated that there are just as many women as there are men who do it. That's not a sentence or concept expressing across the board absolutes.




Can you backup this comment with a link to statistical proof?

And it's not an atiquated concept. Many, many women still do it. You're either kidding yourself, or you're out of touch or you're flat out lying.



And another over-dramatized, overly-defensive response from Ivorytickler.

Who said women can't and don't make their own way?

You're the only one speaking in absolutes. I specifically make a point to word my comments in a non across the board sweeping generalizational manner; because I clearly understand not all females and males behave in the same manner. Something that eludes you.

You obviously have a huge problem with sexuality and you definitely have a major complex. You come off like one of those angry, hardliner, man-hating Women's Libbers who screams about equality when you feel it works in your favor; but then call upon chivalry when you want special treatment.

Your views on sexuality don't encompass the large majority of healthy-minded women in the world. Your self-absorbed, selfish and complex-driven views are uniquely (and sadly), your own. I hope one day your husband can find a woman who truley loves him and cares about him.

You know nothing about my sexuality. It's not something I'd discuss on an open forum. Instead I'll tell you what my husband said when someone gave me a copy of the book "Creative Counterpart". He looked over the table of contents, pointed to the chapter entitled "Getting the rocks out of your mattress" and told me I could tear that chapter out of the book because I didn't need help in that department.

Just because I think sex is something special between two people does not mean I'm a prude or have sexual issues. It just means I think it's private.

Not sure on those stats. If my old computer were up and running I could but I really don't have the time to re-research husband/wife earning stats now (sorry, end of school year and while I may pop in here several times a day just to take a break, I don't have time to dig through census data right now(PITA to find exactly what you want even if you've found it before), however, I did dig this out in a debate on working wives a couple of years back. Not sure it stands since the economy took a dump but that was the case as of the last census. Obviously, it's 40% of working wives not 40% of wives. Stay at home wives have no income but they're the minority of women.

The point, however, is that the idea women objecitfy meny as cash cows is antiquated. Women can and do make their own way in life. We don't need to objectify men as cash cows. That was back in the day when women couldn't make it on their own.

[NMyTree]

A few words on Objectification......

Objectification has a few similar definitions that can be taken in a few different ways.

Objectification just like anything else can be positive, harmless and mild or it can be taken to extremes and completely destructive and negative.

When a women puts on some lipstick......eye-liner....mascara.....make-up, she is objectifying herself.

If you wear a tight pair of jeans to show off your butt, or a shirt/nlouse that either has a low neckline or fits in a manner to highlight your breasts; you are objectifying yourself.

But that's always been part of the physical lure...the bait...

If you've ever dressed in lingerie for your man, ever gave him a peak of your breasts or butt to turn him on or dressed in a sexy manner for him; you are objectifying yourself.

These things are not automatically negative, bad things. They are part of our dance of love and part of our sexuality.

You're only kidding yourself if you think physical attraction doesn't play a role in a very large majority of people geting together, dating, becoming lovers, getting married and staying happily married. Of course there has to be more than just physical attraction to keep a couple together and to maintain a happy marriage. But the physical aspect of it has always played a big role with a large majority of people. Certainly not every single individual and relationship. But a large majority of them.

Anything taken to an extreme is bad, destructive and damaging.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by NMyTree

A few words on Objectification......

Objectification has a few similar definitions that can be taken in a few different ways.

Objectification just like anything else can be positive, harmless and mild or it can be taken to extremes and completely destructive and negative.

When a women puts on some lipstick......eye-liner....mascara.....make-up, she is objectifying herself.

If you wear a tight pair of jeans to show off your butt, or a shirt/nlouse that either has a low neckline or fits in a manner to highlight your breasts; you are objectifying yourself.

But that's always been part of the physical lure...the bait...

If you've ever dressed in lingerie for your man, ever gave him a peak of your breasts or butt to turn him on or dressed in a sexy manner for him; you are objectifying yourself.

These things are not automatically negative, bad things. They are part of our dance of love and part of our sexuality.

You're only kidding yourself if you think physical attraction doesn't play a role in a very large majority of people geting together, dating, becoming lovers, getting married and staying happily married. Of course there has to be more than just physical attraction to keep a couple together and to maintain a happy marriage. But the physical aspect of it has always played a big role with a large majority of people. Certainly not every single individual and relationship. But a large majority of them.

Anything taken to an extreme is bad, destructive and damaging.

I never said physical attraction doesn't play a role in dating and people getting together. I'm referring to what men have said here about undressing women in their minds not dating and courtship rituals.

FTR, I don't wear make up and my preferred mode of dress is baggy t-shirts and blue jeans. Has been since I first realize men couldn't talk to me and look at my face because their eyes were on my bustline. The only thing tight I wear is a minimizer so my bust isn't so prominent. Well, that's why I started wearing them. These days it's so the girls don't visit my navel

What I do for my husband is, entirely, another story. He sees me as more than an object.

[NMyTree]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

You know nothing about my sexuality. It's not something I'd discuss on an open forum. Instead I'll tell you what my husband said when someone gave me a copy of the book "Creative Counterpart". He looked over the table of contents, pointed to the chapter entitled "Getting the rocks out of your mattress" and told me I could tear that chapter out of the book because I didn't need help in that department.

1) If true, then you have misrepresented yourself in this thread.

2) No one forced you to respond in this thread and no one is trying to force you to reveal private things. What are you doing in this thread if you hold sexuality so private?

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Just because I think sex is something special between two people does not mean I'm a prude or have sexual issues. It just means I think it's private.

Again, another gross, defensive over-reaction to a subject matter I wasn't even refering to. I never even implied or insinuated any such thing.

If you think it's so private, then you have no business commenting in a porno themed thread. Porn, whether you acknowledge it or not; is an extension of human sexuality.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by NMyTree

1) If true, then you have misrepresented yourself in this thread.

2) No one forced you to respond in this thread and no one is trying to force you to reveal private things. What are you doing in this thread if you hold sexuality so private?



Again, another gross, defensive over-reaction to a subject matter I wasn't even refering to. I never even implied or insinuated any such thing.

If you think it's so private, then you have no business commenting in a porno themed thread. Porn, whether you acknowledge it or not; is an extension of human sexuality.

You're the one who made accusations about my sexuality, which really has not been discussed here. So you're just making it up as you go along. I consider it private and not open for discussion. That, however, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with me or my views. And my personal life isn't up for debate. The subject is porn and that has NOTHING to do with my sex life.

There is a difference between commenting on porn in general and discussing my, personal, views on sex. I can have an opinoin on porn without disclosing what I do behind closed doors.

[LaoTzuMindFu]

I still say there is a distinct difference between the two. You dont see men starting threads here like "Wife caught reading romance novels, what to do? Shall I divorce him?".