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So, then you also feel free to manipulate time to fit your beliefs...
I was wrong, according to answers in genesis ....Flood....4,285 years ago...Exodus 3,428 years ago...That is only 857 years between the two...The problem is greater than I thought!
Adapt? To what? Why? For what purpose? It happens to work quite well right now (i.e.: it's ALREADY adapted, my boy!) , so that the prerequisite and critical physiological temp range can be maintained despite a variable mammalian internal body core temp, which fluctuates with effort, activity levels, etc.
External testicles protect the sperm, arguably the most important contribution a male organism can contribute. Including the now easily documented DNA variations that occur naturally, and of course, result in species variations, also known as Evolution. This is plainly obvious to those who are not pathologically incapable of open, critical thought.
But thanks for playing anyways!
I'll wish you all the best in THAT endeavor, paganmama! We've all tried for years, but Tom truly is "like a rock" in his fervent denialism.
Why, the answer is BOTH, san! Just close your eyes and click your heels together.
BTW, I heard last night on an unrelated radio show that the Egyptians have DOCUMENTED the lineage of Pharoahs back 70,000+ (let me spell that one out... Seventy Thousand!) years. Academics on Egyptology grant that the first few dozen of those Pharaohs may have been mythological (apparently those scholars, unlike our Christian ones, can and do maintain an open mind to all possibilities...) , but most, if not possibly, all of them, were actual and real.
So. Here we have C34 ardently defending that the Egyptians DID document, accurately, information about an Exodus. Yet he'll deny their other documentation about a line of royalty (the likes of which are always meticulously maintained by a society's scholars, BTW...) that hugely predates his 6036 yr. old Creation fable.
Ohhhh.... which one to chose... which one... that makes one look less the total illiterate fool.... OMG.
Hmmm.... 6035.7 yrs since the absolute and literal creation of EVERYTHING, versus 70,000 years of documented history? Which itself was obviously predated by other early pre-historic societies. Takes us back about, what? 200,000 years minimum, ± 3000 yrs, all before Adam and Eve? Ooopseeeee....
This might well explain why the Jewish version of an Exodus is obviously just an internal fairy tale, since their historians were culturally and physically isolated, and thus created much of their history from their imaginations, all while the rest of the world evolved culturally and historically.
Tom still won't answer why the massive discrepancy with well-written and historically accurate Asian histories which, in other events like visible super-novas, volcanoes and bad weather, were co-recorded by entirely independent and physically separated cultures the world over.
Strangely, none of those other cultures noticed a globally inundating flood, no Star of Bethlehem, no Adam and Eve story (after all, the Asians and Egyptians had already been around and writing for several milennia prior to that funny little local story).
Time to pick one version and stick with it, Tom. You don't want to look like a foolish and stubborn young man, do you? (PS: I suggest you pick the most logical and most evidence-rich one. Just a kindly suggestion, mind you!)
Many of the oral traditions found around the world speak of a global flood. I don't know who told you the other cultures did not notice. The historical record would not agree with your present view.
And for the record, I believe the world is more like 13,000 years old. Not 6,000.
So Egyptians have been documented back 70,000 years. Well dinosaurs have been said to of died off 75 millions years ago. Yet we have pictures of them from 2,000 years ago. And we also are finding soft stretchable tissue in dinosaur bones today. Their claim of 75 million years does not square with the facts.
And what cased that three hours of darkness during the time Christ died on the cross? Spoken of by other historians.
Most of your arguements are based on missing information. Where my arguements are based on information that we all can see. Yet you seem to ignore that. It is not I, who is into denialism here.
Many of the oral traditions found around the world speak of a global flood. I don't know who told you the other cultures did not notice. The historical record would not agree with your present view.
And for the record, I believe the world is more like 13,000 years old. Not 6,000.
So Egyptians have been documented back 70,000 years. Well dinosaurs have been said to of died off 75 millions years ago. Yet we have pictures of them from 2,000 years ago. And we also are finding soft stretchable tissue in dinosaur bones today. Their claim of 75 million years does not square with the facts.
And what cased that three hours of darkness during the time Christ died on the cross? Spoken of by other historians.
Most of your arguements are based on missing information. Where my arguements are based on information that we all can see. Yet you seem to ignore that. It is not I, who is into denialism here.
What pictures lol? And most of your arguments are based off of made up information so what does that tell us?
Many sanspeur believe the flood occured between 3400 B.C and 4990 B.C.
But Campo ol' sport, you believe that the Bible is 100% true don't you....and the Bible chronology gives a date of approximately 2304 BCE for your silly flood. So old fruit, as you believe that the Bible is 100% true you're just going to have to kick those "many" who say it was between 3400 - 4990BCE....out of the stadium aren't you? Tell us which you are going to run with old horse...the Bible that says 2304 BCE or the "many" that say 3400 - 4990BCE.
If you go with your Bible date (and how could you do otherwise) you've only got some 850 years to get the 2 million people [from an original 8] involved in your exodus. Then of course there are all the millions of other people that would have been alive around the world...all from 8 people in some 850 years. Just doesn't add up does it mate?
In the Bible there is no name of the Pharaoh. I want to notice. During ancient times: " Creation World " - it treaty conclusion between two participants. After accident (war, or...) the new world is created.
In one religious doctrine there can be some created worlds. For example: 100 000 years ago. 7ххх years back, 60 years ago.
The planet can will appear 1 000 000 000 years ago. BUT! The world on a planet can will appear 8000 years ago.
The world - is a creation of a original society with . There can be many creations.
Many of the oral traditions found around the world speak of a global flood. I don't know who told you the other cultures did not notice. The historical record would not agree with your present view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
Sorry Tom: you lose again (at least you're predictable!); I'm talking about accurately recorded written history in, for instance, China. Contemporaneous and Written history, Tom. [again, look that word up; it must really confuse you!] You continue to evade the question with some unsupportable nonsense about "oral traditions". I'm talking about the FACT that the Chinese, East Indians, Japanese and others make NO WRITTEN (nor even oral for that matter) MENTION of your flood.
Nary a whisper of it. And you know it, else you'd quote it. You can neither run nor hide here, Tommo!
And for the record, I believe the world is more like 13,000 years old. Not 6,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
Sorry. Still not nearly old enough. Dinos roamed millions of years ago. Many many millions. Not tens of thousands. And we still haven't found (Har har!) any with remnants of saddles or reins on them. Hee hee.
So Egyptians have been documented back 70,000 years. Well dinosaurs have been said to of died off 75 millions years ago. Yet we have pictures of them from 2,000 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
No, we do not, in fact, have any such pictures. Link? PS: Let's not just run on again about some lying Creationist website.
And we also are finding soft stretchable tissue in dinosaur bones today. Their claim of 75 million years does not square with the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifle
Again, you happily distort the facts. first, you say "we". which "we" is that? You mean "you and your fundamentalist friends" who have literally no scientific education? It's certainly not "we" scientists. "We" would not be so outrageously stupid in making such unsupported and implausible claims.
Folks: in truth, The Montana PhD who did that prelim research also indicated the sample 's age to be >15M, but in addition, later work discredited her conclusion that this was in fact "dino" tissue.
Later more accurate work indicating the so-called soft tissue you desperately want to believe in was simply an artifact of an acid wash. Easily reproduced.
Q: Why not come up to speed on what you state, instead of lying about it again and again? No need to answer.
Most of your arguements are based on missing information. Where my arguements are based on information that we all can see. Yet you seem to ignore that. It is not I, who is into denialism here.
Blah blah blah. Your "arguments" are always, demonstrably and easily proven, based on lies and mis-information, with a conspicuous absence of any alternate or conflicting and usually more recent and more accurate and valid research reports.
It's your hallmark; what you're now known for. An ongoing distortion of truth, and of ignoring proven facts, and then ignoring relevant questions. You know, the ones that if you answered honestly, would also prove you entirely wrong.
You also realize that this is the acknowledged opinion of most everyone you argue with here. You're a known prevaricator and mis-quoter. What a lovely rep to have! A great representative for fundy Christianity, yessiree!
So, then you also feel free to manipulate time to fit your beliefs...
I was wrong, according to answers in genesis ....Flood....4,285 years ago...Exodus 3,428 years ago...That is only 857 years between the two...The problem is greater than I thought!
From your informative Creationist link (answersingenesis, BTW...), sans, this gem:
"The placing of a catastrophic global flood in the year 2304 BC means that all civilizations discovered by archaeology must fit into the last 4,285 years."
Of course! 6.5B now surviving people, and an additional estimated 106 Trillion that have ever been born. (Even if this estimate is too high by, say a mind-numbing 50%, it's STILL an enormous number! But what if that's too low by 50%, an equal possibility if one is open-minded about "statistical errors", which fundy Christians never are... They just prefer the ones that favor their version.)
..all arrived within 4285 years, from a mere 8 related people, mostly males, and disregarding the Bubonic (Black) plague and other events. Etc. Etc. Yup; quite believable. But typical of the mathematically uneducated and scientifically illiterate fundy mind.
They just say "Well.... God wanted it to happen, and so it did!". What, that each and every woman has happily been pregnant about 48 times, once every 9 months, without a rest?
Yes, but you start at the illogical beginning. "I believe the Bible is 100% true. You, not so much."
If you take all the Bible claims as true, then of course you are going to be able to work out how it works. Then you look around and find landmarks to fit it. But the Exodus as described in the Bible doesn't fit anywhere. The beginning is questionable at the outset, so why should I accept a figure of two million in a book notorious for figures that look wildly exaggerated to us today.
Your belief in the Bible being 100% true leads you into some poor (though enthusiastic) reasoning and ending up with nothing.
I have pointed up some problems already. That altar doesn't actually look like an altar and the drawings don't look ritual. I have pointed up questions about the Solomon pillar and the supposed 'boundary markers' (Exodus doesn't actually say that markers were placed, just bounds set about it). There were twelve pillars found but not the altar?
I'm not so bothered about what you believe or what disproofs you are willing to accept (if any - I suppose the Hyksos and Tempest stele is a non - starter now?) but I suppose I'm doing what science does with cxreationism - show up the misconceptions and false assumptions so that others won't be fooled.
I don't deny that the argument looks impressive as does that split stone. Moller must have fallen to his knees when he saw that! But Many apologetics arguments do until examined and then they unravel. I think this one is already unravelling, but a lot of the evidence is not available.
So I have to be a bit agnostic until the checks can be made. I'll just repeat that this thread is about documentary evidence, but I suppose the Moller rehash of Wyatt was inevitable.
The story of the Exodus is like a combination lock. ALL the tumblers have to line up in order to open the lock. And those land marks have to be found in an accurate sequence. And when you consider the number of such. Then you will understand, that this is something that cannot be fabricated. Now if you don't want to consider the evidence or the written word. Then what can one say? It's like finding a treasure map, and then saying. "Well, I don't believe the map and it's 20 paces. I believe it was 100 paces". You have to follow the information given, or there is no reason to follow anything at all. Do you not agree?
But Campo ol' sport, you believe that the Bible is 100% true don't you....and the Bible chronology gives a date of approximately 2304 BCE for your silly flood. So old fruit, as you believe that the Bible is 100% true you're just going to have to kick those "many" who say it was between 3400 - 4990BCE....out of the stadium aren't you? Tell us which you are going to run with old horse...the Bible that says 2304 BCE or the "many" that say 3400 - 4990BCE.
If you go with your Bible date (and how could you do otherwise) you've only got some 850 years to get the 2 million people [from an original 8] involved in your exodus. Then of course there are all the millions of other people that would have been alive around the world...all from 8 people in some 850 years. Just doesn't add up does it mate?
By the way, what exactly was the gender and family makeup of the Ark survivors? I haven't looked into the details, since the entire story is extraordinarily weak on a larger basis. Were they all or mostly men, and of the same family?
If they were the mandatory prototypical family for the 6.5B humans now here, we'd see a remarkable and consistent genetic similarity in the few years since the supposed flood. This is not what we find at all, even given vast simultaneous global DNA mutations.
But if that is defended as somehow rational, how can Christians then deny such vast and prolific mutations happen and are recorded in our DNA to be reliably passed on down? This being, of course, evolution, which they ardently deny.
This is called being caught in your own bear trap I believe.
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