The latest in the "Ask a _____" series.....Ask a gay Christian. (salvation, hell)

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by gentlearts

I have had this question in the Relationship Forum for a few days, but haven't gotten much response..

What I don't understand is why, for example, a gay woman would be attracted to a very masculine gay woman, but not to a man. Likewise, if a gay man is repulsed by a woman sexually, why would he be attracted to an effeminate male?

Of course, I realize there is a spectrum of types in either gay or straight relationships. What started me thinking was the other day I was at a museum where a lesbian couple was apparently having a tiff about something which is what drew my attention. I am not exagerating when I say that one of the women had done everything possible to pass as a man; butch squared. I just do not get why, if you're wired to be attracted to a female, you would want that female to look and act like a man.

I've actually wondered about these things myself. I personally don't like effeminate queens. I figure if I'm going to be attracted to men, I'm attracted to men. If a man acts like a drag queen, I don't want to be involved with him. That probably makes me sound prejudiced, but I don't mean for it to. It's not the issue of being FRIENDS with a drag queen that would bother me. It's [the issue] the desire to be in love with a MAN, and if you are dressing up and acting like someone I'm not interested in, then....well, I'm not interested in you in that way. If I wanted to be with a woman, I'd be straight. But I'm not. I'm gay. I'm attracted to MEN.

Regardless, that being said, there simply are different people in the world with different interests. Someone else might be able to better answer this question than I can.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by george123

if you are a christian you accept the bible as God's word
and you accept it as the truth
and so you can't be gay and a Christian
and so you have no standing to answer any questions about being a Christian
you can answer all the questions you want about being Gay but again you are only pretending to be a Christian.

Sorry you feel that way, "God". But thanks for reading anyway. And thanks for the judgment call.

It's good to know there are always those people out there who presume too much. Perhaps you should get to know me first before you judge me like that. Suffice it to say, you don't know what you're talking about. Remember Jesus' saying about taking the log out of your own eye first before you can remove the speck out of your neighbor's? Why don't you go find a mirror. Find out more about what I actually believe FIRST before embarrassing yourself by assuming something you shouldn't assume.

Oh yeah...P.S. I don't appreciate that you inserted a link into what I said and then quoted it as if I posted the link. Next time, post the link OUTSIDE the quote.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by Oakback

WCRob,

I'd like to hear your opinion-feedback on what I'm about to attempt to articulate. ( forgive my spelling, I'm addictd to spell check )

I'm of the belief that GOD is both matriarcle and patriarcle. However GOD is referred to in the masculine. My theory/belief is thus:

There are metaphors everywhere that affirm the relationship between the masculine and the feminine.

For example:
an acorn penetrating the soil of the earth to "bear fruit"
the male of the species penetrating the female to "bear fruit"
the HOLY SPIRIT penetrating Mary who bore the ultimate "fruit"
etc..etc..

One of my favorite passages in scripture from the book of the prophet Isaiah 55: 9-11 is ripe with metaphor, as are many other passages throughout scripture.

I believe there is a GOD given relationship between the penetrating character of the masculine and the "bearing" character of the feminine.

It is this belief that has helped form my opinion that homosexuality is not ordained by GOD.

I hope I made sense. I probably should have spent more time and thought with this, but it's getting late in my neck of the woods. And I'm spending WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS COMPUTER. I think my wife is getting a little perturbed.

You made perfect sense!

And I agree with you. Probably more than you know.

I DO tend to see correlations between the physical world around us, and the spiritual world we cannot see. I believe it is one way in which God speaks to me, or shows me things. He uses things I observe in the physical world around me to highlight a spiritual reality.

[brittZ]

While I dont agree with everything you say, I appreciate your attempts to be forthright and honest. I can see that you are uncertain about a lot of things but from where you are now compared to where you were a few months ago, it seems as though you have come a long way in comming to terms with yourself and who you are. Good for you on that one! If talking to people here is helping you sort it all out, then that is great. You know my perspective on homosexuality from our past battles. However, I don't presume to judge you nor will I speak ill of you. Silently I will pray that God works in your life (and in all our lives) to make you and us who we are supposed to be and do follow the path he has for us. Good luck to you Rob.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by blue62

Rob,something just crossed my small foolish mind..Paul never said what his thorn in the side was did he? Whatever it was, he didn't let it come between himself and his life that he chose to preach the gospel. Maybe we all have thorns in our sides and let them interfere with our lives and our relationship with God..Just something to think about and maybe study about..

Actually, he referred to it as being a "messenger from Satan" that "tormented him". I personally don't think it was a physical ailment like so many people think. I think when he referred to it as a "thorn in his side", it was just a figure of speech meaning it was something that jabbed away at him and made it difficult for him to accomplish his work as a messenger of the gospel. My own thoughts are that it involved constant nagging doubts - perhaps feelings of guilt and inadequacy - and also maybe intrusive thoughts that were intended to distract him and basically get him to expend a lot of energy trying to fight off these bad thoughts, which could have essentially cut into his time and focus of spreading the gospel.

But if I understand you correctly, are you telling me that I should just accept who I am, because otherwise I'm letting this struggle interfere with my relationship to God? Are you're saying that maybe homosexuality is something I simply have to live with? That the thorn of never having a real love in my life is something I have to deal with? It's really hard to do that, because there is something I want that every other straight Christian wants and is allowed to have - but I don't seem to be allowed to have that. And the thing about homosexuality is that there is no real "out" for those who want to fall in love with someone special, and express that love in a physically intimate way, without it feeling forced and unnatural to them. Even with respect to heterosexual lust, Paul gave the option for people to get married. Gays don't have that. At most, we have mas *** bation to relieve our sexual urges, but even THAT is frowned upon by the church. So what natural, acceptable and fulfilling "out" is there for us?

I'm sorry if I'm not understanding what you're telling me. Could you clarify?

[Pathwalker]

Okay, I'm going to alter your post a bit, and every place you wrote "gay" or "homosexual" or something to that effect, I'm going to insert the word "straight" or "heterosexual" or whatever opposite word applies - and vice versa. See my changes below in bold red color....

Originally Posted by sun

WCRob, My question does not pertain to you being a Christian, but rather about the heterosexual interpretation regarding the nature and quality of the sexual act, and it's effect on the person.
I would imagine that in a straight's mind & heart, that the straight person would be able to recognize some sort of a distinction between having straight sex vs. gay sex. While the sexual act itself might be vaguely similar, is their any recognition of a qualitative distinction? Would the distinction be both physical or mental, both, or none?
Does the straight person's feelings about the type of distinction about their sexual act leave one feeling remorseful, or regretful, or lacking, or completely satisfied or just good enough? Does the straight person ever feel like they're missing out on the "real thing" which may have been intended by God for some but not for others?
Would you think that any of these distinctions could cause some straights to decide to try to intentionally change their heterosexual orientation over time despite their sexual preference? Or is the emotional/physical distaste of having "normal" sex too much of an overpowering reason causing some straight persons heterosexual orientation to begin with?
If the relative lack of attraction and emotional fullfillment with the same sex are reasons for a person's heterosexuality, what about the quality of the sexual act? Could it ever be missed or does the quality and purpose of the sexual act simply begin to not matter?
Does any of this cause any anger issues towards God, or does it result in the heterosexual feeling even closer to God, or does one at least feel as close to God than as if they were gay?
I realize that the answers to these questions may be different for everyone, and here I am asking only you.
God bless you for even considering answering these very personal questions. I don't understand what kind of sexual & emotional stress that straights experience, but the answers to these questions might help to clarify some.

Now, read that as if you were me writing it to you. What kind of answers would you give me in response?

I'm not doing that to sound like a smarta**, but rather I want the other readers to know what it sounds like when we hear those kinds of questions being asked of us. I WILL respond to your questions. They are kinda loaded, so I'm going to need some time to think about them.

[kaykay]

I don't even know if you want to answer this one, but where do you think you are today in reference to reconciling, if you will, your sexual orientation and your religious beliefs and faith? I know that you have seemed very conflicted and tormented about this issue. Do you feel you have reached any conclusions for your own life or do you feel like you are still seeking?

Like brittZ said, I'm sure you also know my position and beliefs about this too, but I also wish you peace and the very best, Rob. As I said when you first appeared on this forum, you are very intellligent and articulate and I have appreciated your insightful posts.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Having gay Christian friends, I would not deem to feel worthy to judge what's in their heart.

It's a sin to be gay (which it is according to the Bible). It's also a sin to covet, lie, be gluttonous, drink to excess, etc. I can think of any of a dozen things I'm guilty of that would bar me from making any judgements about someone who is gay.

I'm sorry, but saying "you can't be gay and a Christian" just smacks of someone so blind to the fact that ALL HAVE SINNED....so if you struggle with being gay, having gay feelings (whether or not you've acted on it), or such, well....welcome to the struggle we all have with our personal vices. Mine are difficult for me, yours are difficult for you.

WCROB....the place where I admire you is that you KNOW you'll take a lot of heat from the Christian community for choosing to follow Christ while struggling with this issue...where the "Christian Army" is the only one who shoots its wounded soldiers, eh? And the Christian who is an alcoholic, or wife beater, or cheat, or compulsive liar, or coveter, gets to feel superior to you.

I think the only place where gay Christians need to be a bit cautious is to say that it's NOT a sin. If you reject the Bible's authority, then obviously one can say that being gay isn't a "sin" or isn't "wrong". But if you accept the Bible, you must accept what it says in that matter and acknowledge what it says about your particular type of sin issue. So I would be careful about getting too tight with other gay Christians who are claiming to follow the Bible as God's word yet rejecting any place it condemns that lifestyle.

For me personally, I think some people are really predisposed to being attracted to the same sex (whether butch or not), but I think you choose what to do with it. People in my wife's family are predisposed to alcoholism, but they choose to fight it...some win, some don't.

Thanks for being so open about your feelings on the issue.

First, thank you for the vote of support with respect to me taking heat from other Christians about this. Truth be told, however, I'm not afraid of it because I've heard it all before.

I'd like to address a couple of points you made. They're actually the same point, mentioned in two separate paragraphs, and that is the notion of the Bible referring to homosexuality as a sin. As I've said recently in the other gay thread floating around here, there is a lot of debate not only among common believers such as ourselves, but also among educated theologians, regarding exactly WHAT is referenced in the Bible as being "homosexual sin". There is a lot of regard for the notion that homosexual orientation as we know it today was NOT what was being spoken of in the Bible. Instead, many feel that what was being referenced was certain homosexual acts that were performed in the context of idolatry, prostitution or pedophilia.

If I had thought beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible explicitly forbade homosexuality itself, as we know it today, then this wouldn't even be an issue for me.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by PhillyChief

Gay or straight, I would hope that you find peace with who you are and not have a religion make you feel bad for being one way or another.

Well, I appreciate what you're saying....and I thank you for your sentiments....but the very nature of having a religious belief implies that you pursue truth and adhere to the teachings of that religion. That's what I'm striving to do.

[Miss Blue]

Originally Posted by WCRob

But if I understand you correctly, are you telling me that I should just accept who I am, because otherwise I'm letting this struggle interfere with my relationship to God? Are you're saying that maybe homosexuality is something I simply have to live with? That the thorn of never having a real love in my life is something I have to deal with? It's really hard to do that, because there is something I want that every other straight Christian wants and is allowed to have - but I don't seem to be allowed to have that. And the thing about homosexuality is that there is no real "out" for those who want to fall in love with someone special, and express that love in a physically intimate way, without it feeling forced and unnatural to them. Even with respect to heterosexual lust, Paul gave the option for people to get married. Gays don't So what natural, acceptable and fulfilling "out" is there for us?

I'm sorry if I'm not understanding what you're telling me. Could you clarify?

Rob, short and simple, what I am saying is that you are your own thorn in your side..I think you worry too much about what the world thinks of your homosexuality..You should accept who you are and not be afraid to love someone enough to spend the rest of your life with them..Love is not about sex..I don't think you just decided to be gay, Rob, I think you were born one..In my opinion, until there is a medical cure for homosexuality for people such as yourself that you should not be denied a life of love as you have so beautifully described it in secveral of your posts. Maybe you need to quit praying that God change you, maybe you need to pray that he will show you how to love yourself Good luck ,my friend and know that I will pray for answers for you and for your peace with yourself