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No. There really aren't. Never seen one that couldn't easily be explained.
I'd really suggest you go find a good Baptist Church. Southern Baptist, Baptist General, even American Baptist, or a run of the mill Baptist Church would do wonders for your understanding of Christianity. Or a Bible church. Or even a Calvary Chapel.
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Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. [Exactly.]
Psalm 62:1 Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from Him. [Thank you, God, for your Divine Love, the true salvation.]
Matthew 22:37 Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ [Notice Jesus didn't say, "Love me, I am your God."]
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.” [I am Divine, as my Father is Divine.]
I follow Jesus' true teachings, which are beyond the Bible.
Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. [Exactly.]
Psalm 62:1 Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from Him. [Thank you, God, for your Divine Love, the true salvation.]
Matthew 22:37 Jesus replied: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ [Notice Jesus didn't say, "Love me, I am your God."]
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.” [I am Divine, as my Father is Divine.]
I follow Jesus' true teachings, which are beyond the Bible.
Haha. Someone very close to me is a Baptist. Someone very close to me is a Catholic. We refrain from talking about our religious beliefs and all is well with the world. GB
Haha. Someone very close to me is a Baptist. Someone very close to me is a Catholic. We refrain from talking about our religious beliefs and all is well with the world. GB
I'd encourage you to start talking to your Baptist friend. You might benefit from it.
Gotcha. Let me know if you come up with a verse that says men can become Gods.
The scriptures don't always come right out and word things the way we would like them to. They presuppose that we are intelligent enough to know that when something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it just might be a duck.
I'm curious, BF, how do you think these early Christian fathers (none of whom were considered to be heretics, by the way), came up with their belief in the deification of man?
Irenaeus: “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.”
Irenaeus: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and then later as Gods?”
Clement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.”
Saint Justin: "[Men are] deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.”
Athanasius: “The Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.”
Augustine: “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”
Now, I know you're not going to want to answer me, except to say, "Well, they certainly didn't get their ideas out of the Bible!" I am going to continue to ask you, though, until I get an answer as to how they might have come up with such "heretical" doctrines, and teaching them without being excommunicated from the Church. This doctrine WAS taught in the early centuries of Christianity, and it was NOT considered heresy.
Who are Irenaeaus, Clement, Saint Justin, and Anthanasiaus anyway? We'd have to find who they were, what they were about, and check into this alleged conversation before we could proceed any further. They're just a bunch of odd-named characters uttering statements as of this moment.
I could make up a conversation with Jonash, Blesham, Genmpo, Ronno, and Billybob, but that's not any more clever or useful than the above rabble, and it likewise isn't of the caliber of information to alter the workings of God and the universe.
Who are Irenaeaus, Clement, Saint Justin, and Anthanasiaus anyway? We'd have to find who they were, what they were about, and check into this alleged conversation before we could proceed any further. They're just a bunch of odd-named characters uttering statements as of this moment.
I could make up a conversation with Jonash, Blesham, Genmpo, Ronno, and Billybob, but that's not any more clever or useful than the above rabble, and it likewise isn't of the caliber of information to alter the workings of God and the universe.
Well, you obviously don't know a whole lot about early post-Apostolic Christianity. If those individual's names are not familiar to you and you consider them to be "just a bunch of odd-named characters), admitting it just makes you look uninformed.
(This reminds me of a time nearly 40 years ago when my husband and I were having dinner with friends. We were talking about our favorite kinds of foods. I said my favorite was Italian. The woman asked, "You mean pizza?" I answered, "Well, yes, but not so much pizza as pasta." Her husband, who obviously had never heard the word, "pasta," started laughing at me and said, "Pasta?" He just kept it up, too. "Pasta? Pasta! Ha ha ha." He clearly wanted to make me look like I was trying show off or something. It backfired. He just showed his own ignorance. Keep in mind this was 40 years ago; I guess back then the generic term for spaghetti, ravioli, lasagna and fettuccine hadn't really caught on.)
So... the moral of the story is: If you don't know something, either admit it or look it up. Don't try to get around it by insulting those of who who do.
Well, you obviously don't know a whole lot about early post-Apostolic Christianity. If those individual's names are not familiar to you and you consider them to be "just a bunch of odd-named characters), admitting it just makes you look uninformed.
They were Early Church Fathers. Useful for historical purposes, but they were not inspired writers. We should use caution when referring to their writings. They do not supercede the Scriptures.
They were Early Church Fathers. Useful for historical purposes, but they were not inspired writers. We should use caution when referring to their writings. They do not supercede the Scriptures.
Exactly so. I never suggested that their writings should supersede scripture. But they are useful for historical purposes. They are useful in studying the evolution of Christian theology over the ages, and demonstrating that ideas most people believe to have originated in relatively modern times by "heretics" were actually taught by respected Christian leaders in the early centuries of Christianity. My point was merely that they apparently saw in the scriptures an indication that God planned to enable man to acquire attributes and qualities of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to eventually attain divinity. C.S. Lewis saw it, too, and nobody I've ever talked to considers him a heretic because of it.
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