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What you are missing is the topic - God's inspiration in the Bible or any other Holy Book. While I am well aware of the gap for God provided by not knowing where the stuff of the universe came from (because everything after the bang suggests natural processes, not intelligent direction), that does not do a single thing to show that any religion, its' personal god or Holy Book is anything othr than human invention.
And as to your 'before god' scenario. It only works if Faith without evidence (indeed in spite of it) is the only thing that matters. It makes no sense to me, and I don't see how it can make sense to any god that wasn't totally screwed up that it is of exclusive importance that His Creation should abuse the brain it gave them to believe what reason tells them is rubbish. Not a possible Creator - I am aware of that possibility. But particular religions, gods and Holy Books. That's the thread -topic.
But to stay on the derail, suppose Faith is the only thing that matters. So what if I don't have it? What difference does it make to me in life or when I'm dead? Apart from in life, not buying into what makes no sense, of course
If you don't have faith, then you don't have faith.
Everyone is on his own.
If you don't have faith, then you don't have faith.
Everyone is on his own.
Thank you. That's all we ask. To be allowed to choose Faith or reason, in a world run according to reason and evidence rather than on Faith, and not to be told that we are without morals, wicked people and destined to be punished eternally if we don't have Faith - never mind that -as you will know - some Christians and Muslims all have faith that the others are going to be stewing alongside the atheists for having the wrong Faith.
If you don't have that view, let alone want to force it on others, then we really have no quarrel.
If you don't have faith, then you don't have faith.
Everyone is on his own.
This is the part I don't agree with go. If a belief goes against observations why would you settle for it? If you are here talking about it, why not learn what and why we say the things we do? Sure, some in my ranks are as much blind faith grubbers as some religious people, we don't have to be like that.
I am ok with believing in something, observations support that. I bet the numbers would show most people do.
But how can you say "some yes and some no" when it comes to magic? A guy died and came back to life? There is no reason to make people say that is literally true. Living like larry, er I mean christ, is cool, but to teach people that if they do not accept things that go against what they know they are wrong is a sin to me?
Who, or what, is tasked with disseminating the observations?
Mr Sweet reasonable and his personal beliefs, it seems, which he now seems to want to force on Cardinals, whereas Mr 'Force -his-views-on-others-Atheist Transponder is willing to agree to differ, provided we run the world according to fact rather than faith.
I swear if Arach worked hard at it he couldn't botch his worldview worse.
I couldn't find the Jeffbase post you responded to, but it was a fine example of closed minded fingers-in -ears. If we did see a video of the hand of God touching he Bible, you bet I'd wonder whether it was faked, and it puts Jeff in an odd light that he would accept it without question - unless it was he hand of God touching he Quran - then it'd be a fake, all right.
And the way he waved away my post 10! I'd like to see him put it under scrutiny and make a case for Bible reliability.
In fact as I recall he got beat on Tyre and Babylon already.
See it is that type of cockiness why I won't even waste my time. You've heard the arguments. You rejected them. Fine, no surprise there because that's the only way you can have faith in the FLIMSY case for atheism. So why waste time presenting arguments that will NEVER be given an ounce of consideration? You never beat me on Tyre and Babylon either. Tyre was destroyed. The great city was put to ruin. Just because another city exists sharing the same name doesn't mean that the SAME city exists. That would be like me gluing two popsicle sticks upright near the 9/11 site, naming them the WTC and say, see, the WTC still exists!
But you'll continue to say Tyre exists because that's all ya got. And it requires completely ignoring other fulfilled prophecies like that Tyre would be thrown into the sea. Alexander did exactly that thing.
There is no evidence that could be presented to Jeffbase that he would accept that the Quran is the word of god and that it is the true inspired word of the creator of the universe. Not personal experience testimonies of Muslims encountering peace seeking Allah, not personal conversion stories about lives being changed after following the will of Allah and not all the apologetic arguments on behalf of Islam that are on YouTube. Nothing will change JeffBase's heart to accept the will of Allah and his true communication device the Quran.
Satan is confusing Jeffbase's mind to keep him locked up with all this Jesus silliness.
Save all of us the silly argument Jeffbase.
If such evidence existed then it would certainly be worth consideration which is something atheists won't even do. And then, the cumulative weight of evidence would be measured against the cumulative weight of evidence for Christianity. I'm always open to know the truth and consider the possibility that I have been deceived. But it would sorta be like convincing someone that their loving spouse or family member might decide to murder them in their sleep. You have very strong faith that they love you and would never wish you harm.
The irony is that the hostility and relentless vile attacks by atheists on Christianity and ONLY Christianity only serves to strengthen my faith and show me that Satan is behind it all.
If such evidence existed then it would certainly be worth consideration which is something atheists won't even do. And then, the cumulative weight of evidence would be measured against the cumulative weight of evidence for Christianity. I'm always open to know the truth and consider the possibility that I have been deceived. But it would sorta be like convincing someone that their loving spouse or family member might decide to murder them in their sleep. You have very strong faith that they love you and would never wish you harm.
The irony is that the hostility and relentless vile attacks by atheists on Christianity and ONLY Christianity only serves to strengthen my faith and show me that Satan is behind it all.
No, the irony is that your religion has no more evidence than the Muslim religion. Rational logic to you is vile, which is expected from mindless zealots.
No, the irony is that your religion has no more evidence than the Muslim religion. Rational logic to you is vile, which is expected from mindless zealots.
Baseless claim, unless you can show me how the Koran has just as much fulfilled prophecy, Islam has just as many testimonies of supernatural encounters and miracle healings. There is even a worldwide annual conference of Christian doctors who meet to share their experiences with miracle healing and documented proof of such things. Does Islam have an equivalent?
It is more irrational to believe that we gave from a pile of goop, humans are nothing much bags of cells, and things like love are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain.
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I'd like to see him put it under scrutiny and make a case for Bible reliability. 
