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Old 01-29-2011, 11:37 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,559,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I think you are overlooking the 'Omnipotence' aspect here. We need to ask why an allegedly omnipotent deity can't seem to get his 'message' clearly understood by all peoples.
Just more palavering about the invisible man in the sky. I've told them a dozen times that the guy was killed in the big bang.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,639,854 times
Reputation: 11084
The "big bang" doesn't exist either.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
If the Bible had been clearly written in a manner that could be understood by anyone who read it then we wouldn't have countless interpretations of what various passages mean. I truly believe that the Bible is one of the most poorly written books I've ever read for the simple reason that it is for the most part completely incomprehensible. I also think that one of the major reasons that the Christian faith has split into such a large number of sects and denominations is because Christians have been arguing among themselves about what it actually says and when like minded Christians became forceful about a particular issue they just formed another branch of Christianity.

I think every Christian would agree that the Bible is the most important book that was ever written and they would also agree that it's the inspired word of God which was given to mankind. So I have a simple question. If God is in fact the real author of the Bible and he inspired various men to write it down then why did he do such a poor job? There is controversy about the real meaning of virtually every book in the Bible. That controversy would not exist if every detail was written so clearly that that the meaning of every single passage could only be interpreted in one way. Why should that be so difficult? Afterall this is God we're talking about who never makes mistakes. Any thoughts?
I think it mostly has to do with the nature of people. People are basically lazy and useless.

Just look at what has happened over the last, oh, 50 years or so.

People never ate meat on Fridays, thus the popular "Fish Fries" or the "Spaghetti Dinners" (sans meat). Our local volunteer fire department used to have a "Fish Fry" every Friday to raise money for new equipment and advanced training.

They also used to fast for 40 days during Lent and also give up something important (to symbolize a personal sacrifice). The catholic families who lived on my street used to give up entertainment. No television, no going to the cinema show (although they would listen to the radio).

Then people stopped fasting, and ate fish on Fridays, and then they stopped doing that, and they also stopped making a personal sacrifice during Lent.

I'm not even sure people know what Lent is even about these days.

And look at American Catholics. They revolted, because, well, being catholic was just way too hard, so the pope had to make a lot of changes with Vatican II to make it easy for American Catholics to actually be catholic.

And the various and sundry interpretations of the bible really have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with religion or faith, rather it has to do with the people themselves who are weak and can't live up to the bible, so the dumb down the bible and mold it in their own image.

Look at Mark 10:10. Jesus says if a man or woman divorces, then remarries, they've committed adultery.

Then read where Jesus says, "If you want eternal life, you have to follow the 10 Commandments."

Then look at the 10 Commandments where it says, "You will not commit adultery."

Now, who, seriously, in the right mind wants to believe they will be denied "eternal life" for committing adultery?

No one does, so they re-interpret the passages in all sorts of unique and bizarre and wonderful ways to justify their actions and still allow them to have "eternal life."

If you read the gospels, Jesus states in no uncertain terms what people must do to have "eternal life" and he makes 7 different statements, but people ignore that and focus only on one, a passage in John that says whoever believes gets "eternal life" and then they ignore the fact that John is the speaker and not Jesus, and they also ignore the fact that John doesn't even know where Jesus is half the time.

I mean what do Matthew, Mark and Luke say? Jesus goes once, and only once to Jerusalem. Jesus never goes to Jerusalem twice, he only goes once. The one and only time he goes to Jerusalem, he does his business in the Temple wreaking havoc with the money-changers and then he is arrested shortly afterward.

John contradicts that by saying Jesus goes to Jerusalem twice. The first time he goes, he over-turns the tables of the money changers in the Temple, and then he leaves and ministers for about a year, and then he returns a second time at which point he is arrested and stuff.

So what it it's really about is people who want to be "gay" and still have "eternal life" and people who want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, including violating the Commandments and ignoring the teachings of Jesus and still have "eternal life."

So where in the gospels or for that matter, any where in the New Testament does it say that "forgiveness equals eternal life?" Nowhere, but the way people talk, you'd swear (without bearing false witness or taking the name of god in vain) that it was written on every page in big bold capital letters.

In some ways, that's why you kind of have to admire or respect Muslims, because at least they try to follow the tenet and teachings of the Quran, which is more than you can say about christians.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:06 AM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,632,130 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I think it mostly has to do with the nature of people. People are basically lazy and useless.

Just look at what has happened over the last, oh, 50 years or so.

People never ate meat on Fridays, thus the popular "Fish Fries" or the "Spaghetti Dinners" (sans meat). Our local volunteer fire department used to have a "Fish Fry" every Friday to raise money for new equipment and advanced training.

They also used to fast for 40 days during Lent and also give up something important (to symbolize a personal sacrifice). The catholic families who lived on my street used to give up entertainment. No television, no going to the cinema show (although they would listen to the radio).

Then people stopped fasting, and ate fish on Fridays, and then they stopped doing that, and they also stopped making a personal sacrifice during Lent.

I'm not even sure people know what Lent is even about these days.

And look at American Catholics. They revolted, because, well, being catholic was just way too hard, so the pope had to make a lot of changes with Vatican II to make it easy for American Catholics to actually be catholic.

And the various and sundry interpretations of the bible really have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with religion or faith, rather it has to do with the people themselves who are weak and can't live up to the bible, so the dumb down the bible and mold it in their own image.

Look at Mark 10:10. Jesus says if a man or woman divorces, then remarries, they've committed adultery.

Then read where Jesus says, "If you want eternal life, you have to follow the 10 Commandments."

Then look at the 10 Commandments where it says, "You will not commit adultery."

Now, who, seriously, in the right mind wants to believe they will be denied "eternal life" for committing adultery?

No one does, so they re-interpret the passages in all sorts of unique and bizarre and wonderful ways to justify their actions and still allow them to have "eternal life."

If you read the gospels, Jesus states in no uncertain terms what people must do to have "eternal life" and he makes 7 different statements, but people ignore that and focus only on one, a passage in John that says whoever believes gets "eternal life" and then they ignore the fact that John is the speaker and not Jesus, and they also ignore the fact that John doesn't even know where Jesus is half the time.

I mean what do Matthew, Mark and Luke say? Jesus goes once, and only once to Jerusalem. Jesus never goes to Jerusalem twice, he only goes once. The one and only time he goes to Jerusalem, he does his business in the Temple wreaking havoc with the money-changers and then he is arrested shortly afterward.

John contradicts that by saying Jesus goes to Jerusalem twice. The first time he goes, he over-turns the tables of the money changers in the Temple, and then he leaves and ministers for about a year, and then he returns a second time at which point he is arrested and stuff.

So what it it's really about is people who want to be "gay" and still have "eternal life" and people who want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, including violating the Commandments and ignoring the teachings of Jesus and still have "eternal life."

So where in the gospels or for that matter, any where in the New Testament does it say that "forgiveness equals eternal life?" Nowhere, but the way people talk, you'd swear (without bearing false witness or taking the name of god in vain) that it was written on every page in big bold capital letters.

In some ways, that's why you kind of have to admire or respect Muslims, because at least they try to follow the tenet and teachings of the Quran, which is more than you can say about christians.
You were pretty good right up until the last paragraph. Muslims do exactly the same thing. The are human and sinners, just like us Christians. They go against the Koran, too. Please don't put those folks on a pedestal because that is completely counter to reality. Thousands of Muslims are killed by other Muslims each year. There are gay Muslims. There are adultrous Muslims who get stoned, no less. Your really going to have to re-examine that last comment if you want some credibility.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:52 AM
 
570 posts, read 733,288 times
Reputation: 76
*
One original book ...
Too many Copies ...
Too many Significant changes ...
Too Many differences ..
One result :
The Bible that we have now is Interpolated false .
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:45 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,559,309 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
The "big bang" doesn't exist either.
You're entitled to your opinion but just be sure you realize that's all it is...your opinion.

Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways: 1) by looking for the oldest stars; and 2) by measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang; just as crime detectives can trace the origin of a bullet from the holes in a wall. They can solve problems which date back 14 billion years. What kinds of problems are you solving with your opinion?

In 5 billion years the sun will burn out. It's gonna be cold around here.

Last edited by Melvin.George; 01-30-2011 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 01-30-2011, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,850,754 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Perhaps he's limited by the abilities of the human mind.
So he has limitations...he's not omnipotent??? That would explain a lot.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,179,956 times
Reputation: 6958
An appropriate video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQBDG...18302E&index=2
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,639,854 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
So he has limitations...he's not omnipotent??? That would explain a lot.
The limitations are of human understanding....if any.
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Old 01-30-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,639,854 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
You're entitled to your opinion but just be sure you realize that's all it is...your opinion.

Astronomers estimate the age of the universe in two ways: 1) by looking for the oldest stars; and 2) by measuring the rate of expansion of the universe and extrapolating back to the Big Bang; just as crime detectives can trace the origin of a bullet from the holes in a wall. They can solve problems which date back 14 billion years. What kinds of problems are you solving with your opinion?

In 5 billion years the sun will burn out. It's gonna be cold around here.
Nothing exists. Not even you or I.
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