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There is some speculation that the story of Christ has been intermingled with that of Horace, an Egyptian pharaoh. His story is similar, virgin birth, disciples, belief in one God, that kind of thing. Personally, I don't know, there are similarities, but I just don't know.
I do know that the bible does take Jewish religion, and pieces it together to make their point that Jesus was Gods son.
I have seen the Horace example here before. Yet when you read the story you wonder why they even brought it up. The details of the story are so far removed from the Biblical account. And the Old Testament does have at least 300 prophecies that speak of Gods choosen one to come. And all 300 prophecies are fulfilled in the New Testament. And when it comes to the prophecies of Christ first coming, few Christians have any problems with those prophecies.
I have seen the Horace example here before. Yet when you read the story you wonder why they even brought it up. The details of the story are so far removed from the Biblical account. And the Old Testament does have at least 300 prophecies that speak of Gods choosen one to come. And all 300 prophecies are fulfilled in the New Testament. And when it comes to the prophecies of Christ first coming, few Christians have any problems with those prophecies.
I don't personally buy the "old testament foretold" argument. The old testament speaks of a great warrior, someone who will come and smite the non believers. Jesus was a prince of peace, which is why I personally don't believe he was the Jewish messiah as foretold.
The old testament also never mentions the name "Jesus" at all. It says "Emanuel" but not "Jesus". Last I recall, no one called Jesus Emanuel, until after he was dead.
My personal belief on Jesus, is that he was real, and he was a radical shift in the thinking of the Jewish people. He believed that everyone should love everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. This was a threat to the Jewish theocracy, and they executed him over it. I don't believe that Jesus was a deity, I believe he was a man, in tune with some higher way of thinking then most people will ever come into. He is the same kind of man as Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi. These men preached and lived by non violence, and that everyone was equal, and to love everyone. I believe this is as close to "God" as we humans can get.
What I believe may have happend with the "Horace" analogy, perhaps Jesus's disciples wanted to make him out to be bigger than he actually was. Perhaps, they needed to make him "God like" by putting things like virgin births, and rising from the dead attributed to him. Even thats a stretch, and I really have no proof of that.
I have seen the Horace example here before. Yet when you read the story you wonder why they even brought it up. The details of the story are so far removed from the Biblical account.
Actually the name is Horus, and the similarities are striking. And it wouldn't be the first time Bible authors borrowed from the Egyptians - much of the Old Testament was directly lifted from The Beak of The Dead and other Egyptian works.
But it's not just Horus of course, there are dozens of other "god-men" and "messiah" figures, such as Hercules, Dionysus, Mithras, Krishna, Buddha etc that the authors of the Jesus myth lifted their main man's characteristics from.
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And the Old Testament does have at least 300 prophecies that speak of Gods choosen one to come. And all 300 prophecies are fulfilled in the New Testament.
Well, only through ALOT of wishful thinking and pounding square pegs into round holes, that is. Of course, the authors of the New Testament were well versed in these "prophesies" and it was not too difficult to write a sequal with a "messiah" who conveniently fulfills a laundry list of prophesies and other requirements set before them.
If you give me a list of "prophesies" I guarantee you I can fulfill them given enough time, resources and the use for clever symbolic interpretations..
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And when it comes to the prophecies of Christ first coming, few Christians have any problems with those prophecies.
Well duh. A cult's sheeple rarely have a problem with their own dogmas...
I don't personally buy the "old testament foretold" argument. The old testament speaks of a great warrior, someone who will come and smite the non believers. Jesus was a prince of peace, which is why I personally don't believe he was the Jewish messiah as foretold.
The old testament also never mentions the name "Jesus" at all. It says "Emanuel" but not "Jesus". Last I recall, no one called Jesus Emanuel, until after he was dead.
My personal belief on Jesus, is that he was real, and he was a radical shift in the thinking of the Jewish people. He believed that everyone should love everyone, Jew and Gentile alike. This was a threat to the Jewish theocracy, and they executed him over it. I don't believe that Jesus was a deity, I believe he was a man, in tune with some higher way of thinking then most people will ever come into. He is the same kind of man as Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi. These men preached and lived by non violence, and that everyone was equal, and to love everyone. I believe this is as close to "God" as we humans can get.
What I believe may have happend with the "Horace" analogy, perhaps Jesus's disciples wanted to make him out to be bigger than he actually was. Perhaps, they needed to make him "God like" by putting things like virgin births, and rising from the dead attributed to him. Even thats a stretch, and I really have no proof of that.
Of course this was the same mistake the Jews made. They picked the prophecy they liked and ignored the one they did not like. For you see, in Zechariah chapter 9, verse 9 it reads. Rejoice heartily, O daughter Zion, shout for joy, O daughter Jerusalem! See, your king shall come to you; a just (SAVIOR) is he, (MEEK), and riding on an ass, on a colt, the foal of an ass.
Now the Jews liked the prophecy that spoke of Him as a (WARRIOR), and they ignored the idea of a (MEEK) king. Yet when you read the Old Testament prophecies, you understand that these prophecies could not be fulfilled in a single generation, but would require generations to fulfill.
Also, there is historical evidence that the 3 hours of darkness that occured when Jesus died on the cross. Really happened, and that historical account would also confirm the events of the New testament.
Now such prophecies about Jesus first coming is believed by most of us in the Christian faith.
Actually the name is Horus, and the similarities are striking. And it wouldn't be the first time Bible authors borrowed from the Egyptians - much of the Old Testament was directly lifted from The Beak of The Dead and other Egyptian works.
But it's not just Horus of course, there are dozens of other "god-men" and "messiah" figures, such as Hercules, Dionysus, Mithras, Krishna, Buddha etc that the authors of the Jesus myth lifted their main man's characteristics from.
Well, only through ALOT of wishful thinking and pounding square pegs into round holes, that is. Of course, the authors of the New Testament were well versed in these "prophesies" and it was not too difficult to write a sequal with a "messiah" who conveniently fulfills a laundry list of prophesies and other requirements set before them.
If you give me a list of "prophesies" I guarantee you I can fulfill them given enough time, resources and the use for clever symbolic interpretations..
Well duh. A cult's sheeple rarely have a problem with their own dogmas...
Well you could make an argument that the writers of the Bible did a force fit in order to get the prophecies to fit. Yet, what would be the point? Most of those men died horrible deaths. Why go to all that trouble for a lie? Especially when a simple confession would of given them their freedom. And don't forget, the prophecies of the Bible did not end with the death of it's writers. Many detailed prophecies are still being fulfilled in the day we live. When it comes to the prophecies of Christ first coming, most Christians are in agreement on them. Yet many Christians are not that well versed on the prophecies of His second coming, and sometimes this does cause debate within the church.
Well you could make an argument that the writers of the Bible did a force fit in order to get the prophecies to fit. Yet, what would be the point? Most of those men died horrible deaths. Why go to all that trouble for a lie? Especially when a simple confession would of given them their freedom.
Never underestimate the willingness of gullible sheeple to zealously follow a cause and believe anything they are told, even to the death. I mean, look at yourself. You buy the lies of young earth creationism hook line and sinker.
The folks at Jonestown are also a perfect example..
And besides, Christianity is hardly the only religion that has followers willing to martyr themselves.
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And don't forget, the prophecies of the Bible did not end with the death of it's writers. Many detailed prophecies are still being fulfilled in the day we live.
Uhhh, yeah.. this takes us back to "square pegs and round holes".
There are in fact no "detailed" prophecies being fulfilled. Not without ALOT of forced interpretations, creative symbolism and changing the meanings of words and sentences.
Of course this was the same mistake the Jews made. They picked the prophecy they liked and ignored the one they did not like. For you see, in Zechariah chapter 9, verse 9 it reads. Rejoice heartily, O daughter Zion, shout for joy, O daughter Jerusalem! See, your king shall come to you; a just (SAVIOR) is he, (MEEK), and riding on an ass, on a colt, the foal of an ass.
Now the Jews liked the prophecy that spoke of Him as a (WARRIOR), and they ignored the idea of a (MEEK) king. Yet when you read the Old Testament prophecies, you understand that these prophecies could not be fulfilled in a single generation, but would require generations to fulfill.
Also, there is historical evidence that the 3 hours of darkness that occured when Jesus died on the cross. Really happened, and that historical account would also confirm the events of the New testament.
Now such prophecies about Jesus first coming is believed by most of us in the Christian faith.
14 Then the LORD will appear over them;
his arrow will flash like lightning.
The Sovereign LORD will sound the trumpet;
he will march in the storms of the south,
15 and the LORD Almighty will shield them.
They will destroy
and overcome with slingstones.
They will drink and roar as with wine;
they will be full like a bowl
used for sprinkling [e] the corners of the altar. 16 The LORD their God will save them on that day
as the flock of his people.
They will sparkle in his land
like jewels in a crown. 17 How attractive and beautiful they will be!
Grain will make the young men thrive,
and new wine the young women.
Thats a little bit further down in Chapter 9 of the Z book.
Also, it doesn't say savior, that was translated later, it says "King". It also doesn't say peace, it says he will ride on a donkey, a colt, and the foal of a donkey. So he is going to ride in on a donkey, a horse, and a 1 year old donkey, all at the same time? Incredible.
Of course this was the same mistake the Jews made. They picked the prophecy they liked and ignored the one they did not like. For you see, in Zechariah chapter 9, verse 9 it reads. Rejoice heartily, O daughter Zion, shout for joy, O daughter Jerusalem! See, your king shall come to you; a just (SAVIOR) is he, (MEEK), and riding on an ass, on a colt, the foal of an ass.
Now the Jews liked the prophecy that spoke of Him as a (WARRIOR), and they ignored the idea of a (MEEK) king. Yet when you read the Old Testament prophecies, you understand that these prophecies could not be fulfilled in a single generation, but would require generations to fulfill.
Also, there is historical evidence that the 3 hours of darkness that occured when Jesus died on the cross. Really happened, and that historical account would also confirm the events of the New testament.
Now such prophecies about Jesus first coming is believed by most of us in the Christian faith.
Here are a few more Messiah prophecies that haven't come true
The true Messiah is to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem—but Jesus lived while the Temple was still standing. Jeremiah 33:18
The Messiah will reestablish Jewish religious law as the law of the land.
Jeremiah 33:15
The Messiah will save Israel." In the case of Jesus, the very opposite took place. Not long after his death, the Holy Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, Jerusalem was laid to waste, and the Jews went into exile to begin a 1900 year long night of persecution, — largely at the hands of the followers of this self-styled Messiah!"
He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1).
The Messiah will return all exiles to their homeland. Isaiah 11:11-12
Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3
Hosea 3:4-5
Now, Christians will tell you Christ will do this in his second coming. However, the old testament never fortells of a second coming, not once. How could they have gotten so much right about their prophecy, and missed the second coming?
Also, Jesus was very well versed in Jewish scripture. I'm sure he knew what he was doing when he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, if he actually did that.
I have to agree and I thought we'd already told Campbell 34 about this.
That the gospels clearly show Jesus setting up this fulfillment of a prophecy shows that it doesn't matter whether the king looked meek or not, the point was to act out the scripture to fulfill it. And Campbell's assertion that this did not appeal to the Jews is not only unsupported supposition, it is actually in defiance of the the gospels. Matthew 21 shows the whole city (of Jews) getting quite excited and enthusiastic about this Jesus on his ass. He's already been told this, I'm sure.
This I must say, one that looks like Jesus doing the quoteming on his own account rather than the gospel -writers doing it for him after the event, such as the Nativity accounts or Judas' death or the casting of lots for old clothing.
As to 'Horace' You have to recall that, where it was absorbed into Christian mythology (if it was) it was in a much evolved form much mixed with Ptolemaic Hellenist traditions. Isis - worship was changed from a very Egyptian goddess to a very Roman -looking one, the 'star of the sea' and looking quite astonishingly like a ready made Catholic virgin and Horace -child ready to be adapted into the Christian Iconography.
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You have to recall that, where it was absorbed into Christian mythology (if it was) it was in a much evolved form much mixed with Ptolemaic Hellenist traditions. Isis - worship was changed from a very Egyptian goddess to a very Roman -looking one, the 'star of the sea' and looking quite astonishingly like a ready made Catholic virgin and Horace -child ready to be adapted into the Christian Iconography.
