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A lot of Christian theology is both allegory and true at the same time.
Nuance is key, and sleight mis-statements as to the truth of the matter are common because man is flawed. Therefore, its not always helpful to take one man's or even one sect's specific phrasing of any single issue as accurate.
I'd put it to you like this:
Correct action is more important than belief, but the correct action will be exceedingly difficult (perhaps impossible from the perspective of Church authority) without the instruction that comes inside of belief. Therefore making it more expedient for the Church to declare that only believers will "go to Heaven" (which may be de facto true, if not strictly "legally" true). Partly because correct action will commonly be strongly counter-intuitive to what one feels is the Right thing to do and you have your entire life to mess it up with rationalizations that strongly feel correct even though they are wrong.
I leave it to you to infer the rest, which is possible from what I stated.
That sounded like it translated into 'Just live how society generally lives, but always let the church tell you what to do'.
Which particular Church would that be, just to be certain?
It isn't. You'd seen it in the posts above - God can do what he wants and we just have to accept it. 'Who are we to question God's will?' You will never get there by reason and analysis. That will only make you more atheist. The only way to do it is by Faith and letting that wash all the reason and analysis out of your bran, and then close it tight so none of that can get in again. That's the only way I can see you doing it.
Others, caught before they heard the arguments, may have been talked into Faith by the clever religious apologetics and got Faith through being talked into it, but it sounds like you have gone beyond that.
Maybe the 'something more' line might work. The Cosmic Mind or the reality behind 'everything we know', because of course human knowledge and science and even evolution doesn't rule out a possible god. You might start with crediting the prime mover.
Talk to TroutDude. He might be able to introduce you to Sortagoddism.
or he could just take a leap into your faith and deny anything and everything you feel makes fighting religion harder.
He could use your faith's pillars of reliability to bolster you statement of belief about god. For now the pillars of militant atheism.
sortagod'
apologetics
religion is dangerous
strawman
ok, but just don't get in our way we have the same goal
walk away from fools using science
for practical reason we need to be united with under anti-god.
do Not question atheist beliefs
Let me explain my vague title. It's my understanding that if someone doesn't accept Jesus Christ that they're going to hell. Now if a person is born in a nation that's muslim for example it's extremely likely that due to the influence of their society and upbringing that they will also become a muslim. According to Christian beliefs this person will not be saved and will go to hell. The same is true of anyone who happens to be raised in India, China and alot of other places. Just by the accident of the place of their birth they are doomed to go to hell. If the God of the Christian faith really exists and is really using the acceptance of Jesus Christ to determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is this really fair? It would appear that almost no Asians would be going to heaven, no Arabs, Indians or many other ethnic groups. The greatest number of people heading to heaven would apparently be caucasians. And here's another group of people that don't seem to be accounted for. What about the millions of people who lived and died before Jesus was even born? Obviously they couldn't have accepted Christ who hadn't even existed yet. If you've read my posts you know I'm an atheist but I'm curious what people think about this.
What isn't fair is that everyone that has ever existed deserves(d) hell. But God mercifully saves some. That isn't fair. It's not fair that he chose me before the foundations of the world. What would have been "fair" is to punish me for my sin. But he chose not to. Why? No clue. But that's what he did.
I am atheist who is searching for God and want to know how to find him. I travelled a lot and are exposed to all kinds of religions and had kept asking myself why some believe and some don't. In truth, I want to believe but I need hard proof. I have the same question in my mind about fairness of God. It is a fact that some people will never get a chance to know God or Jesus. Even if God communicate to them, it is impossible to for them to identify the voice as from God of Christianity. Voices are also said to be sometime a disgust of Satan according to my pastor. I once travelled to Tibet where people live in mountainous areas away from all communications. They would walk 3 hours daily to get basic necessity like water, I really don't see how they would ever get a chance to hear the gospel. Is it even possible for missionaries to reach every human on this earth? According to my pastor, those kids that die before becoming conscious will go straight to heaven. I don't see that as fair either. It is like they are getting Disney FastPasses to Heaven without even trying. How about those kids who die just becoming conscious but never heard of God? Are they going down tower of terror? Is there even a second chance for those who just missed out? To me, God's system seems more like a reflection of our current society where the rich and privileges' could easily put the blame on the working poor for not trying hard enough, thus ending up where they are. This whole thing of believing in God is like asking a highschooler to take the same test with the preschooler and expecting both to do well. I think ultimately we atheists are hoping that God's system will be perfect and would address the inequality in our current system. I really hope whoever follow up with this question can finally convince us that God is fair because I believe atheists wanted to believe too but first we must first believe that the system is fair and different from our worldly system.
I would say don't search for god. Search for how the universe works first.
If you find a god it will match the universe and what we see better and thus be a more reliable belief. I personally have found no god.
And be willing to change you belief based on new information. Let it take you where it (the observations about the universe) take you. Its ok to change what you think about god.
to many god faith have determined where you should, by default, end up. There are many dishonest people, be them atheist or theist. they have decided your default holy path for you because they are just out to save you.
What isn't fair is that everyone that has ever existed deserves(d) hell. But God mercifully saves some. That isn't fair. It's not fair that he chose me before the foundations of the world. What would have been "fair" is to punish me for my sin. But he chose not to. Why? No clue. But that's what he did.
Let me explain my vague title. It's my understanding that if someone doesn't accept Jesus Christ that they're going to hell. Now if a person is born in a nation that's muslim for example it's extremely likely that due to the influence of their society and upbringing that they will also become a muslim. According to Christian beliefs this person will not be saved and will go to hell. The same is true of anyone who happens to be raised in India, China and alot of other places. Just by the accident of the place of their birth they are doomed to go to hell. If the God of the Christian faith really exists and is really using the acceptance of Jesus Christ to determine who goes to heaven and who goes to hell is this really fair? It would appear that almost no Asians would be going to heaven, no Arabs, Indians or many other ethnic groups. The greatest number of people heading to heaven would apparently be caucasians. And here's another group of people that don't seem to be accounted for. What about the millions of people who lived and died before Jesus was even born? Obviously they couldn't have accepted Christ who hadn't even existed yet. If you've read my posts you know I'm an atheist but I'm curious what people think about this.
According to my Christian beliefs (as well as according to the official doctrine of my Christian denomination), it's utter nonsense to assume that all people who live their lives as non-Christians are going to end up in Hell.
What isn't fair is that everyone that has ever existed deserves(d) hell. But God mercifully saves some. That isn't fair. It's not fair that he chose me before the foundations of the world. What would have been "fair" is to punish me for my sin. But he chose not to. Why? No clue. But that's what he did.
Oh, my gosh. I'm not sure which I find the most inexplicable: the arrogance or the ignorance. And I bet you even believe that you deserved Hell from the instant you drew your first breath. What a horrible way to go through life.
What in life is "fair" and who decides the standard to be used. Of course "Christianity" isn't fair. It involves humans. Where is *fairness* even listed as a standard? It isn't.
Is it even possible for missionaries to reach every human on this earth?
Of course not.
Quote:
According to my pastor, those kids that die before becoming conscious will go straight to heaven. I don't see that as fair either. It is like they are getting Disney FastPasses to Heaven without even trying. How about those kids who die just becoming conscious but never heard of God? Are they going down tower of terror? Is there even a second chance for those who just missed out?
If I were you, I'd look for a new pastor, one who believes God is loving and fair. What kind of a God would populate an earth with billions of people, only to send the majority of them to eternal suffering -- particularly when they were merely unfortunate enough to have been born at the wrong time or in the wrong place. This kind of Christianity offends me to the depth of my soul.
Oh, my gosh. I'm not sure which I find the most inexplicable: the arrogance or the ignorance. And I bet you even belief that you deserved Hell from the instant you drew your first breath. What a horrible way to go through life.
It truly boggles the mind the extent to which our human perversity can drive our beliefs about God, Katz. Sad, very sad.
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