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That's your opinion. Without Christianity you'd have no moral standard, no ten commandments.
The problem with this is that you cherry pick which commandments you will and won't follow. Do you go out and kill unbelievers(Luke 19:12-27), follow the many laws of the Tanakh(Mathew 5:17-20), beat your children(Proverbs 13:24, Proverbs 22:15, Proverbs 23:13, Ecclesiasties 22:6, Ecclesiasties 30:11) or keep slaves(1 Timothy 6:1-3). The truth is that your morals come from secular sources, not religion. If your moral standard did come from religion then you would be keeping slaves, abusing your child, murdering unbelievers and following all OT laws.
following are an inspiring set of standards indeed. Too bad they aren't the same as those required of Christians, who seem to ignore them right here in their inusulting combative anti-atheist posts and threads.
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Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt
1) Strive to use your best judgment.
2) Strive to limit the harm one causes.
3) Strive to benefit one's self, others, and the environment.
4) Strive to be trustworthy.
5) Strive to take appropriate responsibility for one's actions.
6) Strive to be fair and just.
7) Strive to respect and protect the rights and dignity of one's self, others, and all of creation.
8) Strive to be patient and forgiving.
9) Strive to gain understanding.
10) Strive to love, show empathy, and be compassionate.
Nature is not my god. I do not have a god.
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Originally Posted by AgoodChristian
"What do atheists believe?"
That the universe somehow created itself out of nothing for no reason, that only the strong should survive and the weak be killed (evolution), that the savior Jesus was a mad man and that there is no benevolent God so everything is permissible.
And your point is? As if there's something essentially wrong with these realistic viewpoints? A bit simplistic and exaggerated, but that's only a result of the impressive lack of scientific literacy demo'd by this poster.
ABC*, Your outlandish belief is that an always-invisible and evidence-free superhero, with impossible but constantly re-defined powers of convenience as our true understanding of the universe expands, demands unthinking fealty in return for impossible rewards in an impossible "heaven", and also has never been described or defined. As well, He favors only a few individuals whom He has already picked out even before they're born, so it really doesn't matter how or what we believe today anyhow.
Anything is possible. That's the wonder of life. Man's historic behavior so far, exemplified by that of vicious Christian fanatics, has proved this point. In fact, it's only atheists who have apparently realized that they are responsible for their own behavior, and that they shouldn't have to depend on being watched, like kindergarten kiddies do. Or that they have to read the rules written on the walls each and every weekend just in order to remain well-behaved.
Well, they may have a point! Some kids never grow up, and are often called "troublesome" by their guardians and teachers.
So yep. All quite believable.
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Originally Posted by AgoodChristian
If there is no God then everything is permissible. Where do you get your morals from?
Answers:Common sense. Maturity. Learned behavior. Respect for others' privacy and rights. an innate sense of right and wrong. The ability to tell the difference.
Apparently, by your trollish statements and admissions, ABC*, we atheists are alone in these skills.
Or....
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
Social contract. Golden Rule. Evolutionary biology hardwiring decent behavior into our brains.
Your statement simply shows a lack of ethical understanding and moral development on your part.
Or, a simple desire to irritate and not discuss. Quite the ethical standards for a claimed Christian, huh
Or, hows about these obvious and logical answers, ABC?...
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Originally Posted by Arjay51
Survival instinct. Behave in a manner considered immoral by society and you will be destroyed.
Remember, your "christian" morals have changed over time, hence are not immutable, merely currently acceptable.
Precisely. The vaunted Christian Ethic changes like a newborn kid's diapers. Beliefs and Ethics of Convenience, proven by the infamous Spanish Inquisiiton, the Salem Witch Hunts, the current claims and demands of certain US State Boards of (Mis-) Education. all prove hteir insistent desire to control your thinking.
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Originally Posted by agnostic soldier
As usual, a conservative making claims about something they don't understand and know nothing about.
For one, atheism doesn't say the universe came out of nothing for no reason. Two, evolution doesn't claim the strong survive and the weak be killed. Evolution isn't even exclusive to atheism. Three, atheism doesn't equal hedonism and it doesn't claim everything is permissable. Also, atheists aren't borrowing from christian 'moral capital' as many religious folk purport they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgoodChristian
That's your opinion. Without Christianity you'd have no moral standard, no ten commandments.
As for the first part about moral standards: Wrong on it's face.
As for the ten commandments, you're quite selective on those, aren't you? Why not let's review each of them in detail? What's that you say? Some no longer apply?
Oh.
Well, thank your god I don't have to adhere to ancient, superstitious and highly inappropriate laws. By the way, isn't there one in there about lying? How do you personally interpret that, ABC?
(*ABC = A Bad Christian, which means one who knowingly does not adhere to the religion's most basic and mandated ethical standards).
Atheist-ism is a religion, like OFF is a TV channel.
We don't need imaginary anythings to make ourselves whole and happy.
Now there are laws of nature and physics, that none of us can escape, change or avoid, but that is just reality, and reality is not the enemy of Atheists, as it is to so many because it conflicts so with their imaginary deities.
I think answering what we don't believe will say a good deal about what we do. This non-believer doesn't believe in books written by God, or a devine being who gives a crap about our petty lives or what goes on in them.
Live life the best you can and whatever happens after this life, be it an afterlife or nothing at all, happens. And do try to enjoy yourself and have a little fun in the process.
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"What do you think created the universe?"
It's the great unknown, assuming we're going beyond the Big Bang here. I don't know the answer to something? So what. That's hardly a good reason a accept anyone's brand of religion as "the truth" by default.
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"What are your moral values and worldview?"
Golden Rule. Try to live by it. It's simple and effective. Note I said try to live by it. I have the habit of treating others how they treat me, instead of how I'd want to be treated. No, I don't think I'll be going to confession anytime soon.
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"Is nature your God?"
No, not at all. Don't get me wrong, I believe nature should be respected, but it most certainly isn't God.
I thought about Pantheism briefly, but it just wouldn't work for me.
Just think: more often than not, when DNA makes an imperfect copy of itself, it's harmful. Just look at all the "perfectly created" species that have gone extinct. If God was guiding evolution, he either has a twisted sense of humor, or he's really clumsy. It appears to be a mindless process to me.
Last edited by achickenchaser; 05-16-2010 at 03:36 PM..
I think answering what we don't believe will say a good deal about what we do. This non-believer doesn't believe in books written by God, or a devine being who gives a crap about our petty lives or what goes on in them.
Ok well don't let us see you quoting Bible verses. Because I have seen that many times from Atheist which made no sense to me.
Quote:
Live life the best you can and whatever happens after this life, be it an afterlife or nothing at all, happens. And do try to enjoy yourself and have a little fun in the process.
So you believe in an afterlife? Your statement indicates you are on the fence about whether or not an afterlife exist.
Quote:
It's the great unknown, assuming we're going beyond the Big Bang here. I don't know the answer to something? So what. That's hardly a good reason a accept anyone's brand of religion as "the truth" by default.
Fair answer. However tell that to some of your fellow Atheist who refuse to accept this same belief. I wish they could be as truthful with their feelings as you seem to be.
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No, not at all. Don't get me wrong, I believe nature should be respected, but it most certainly isn't God.
So you believe in God? You said "..it most certainly isn't God" indicating you have a belief in some kind of deity.
Quote:
Just think: more often than not, when DNA makes an imperfect copy of itself, it's harmful. Just look at all the "perfectly created" species that have gone extinct. If God was guiding evolution, he either has a twisted sense of humor, or he's really clumsy. It appears to be a mindless process to me.
Mindless process. Right. The fact that you can even sit down looking at your computer screen with two perfect eyes and two perfect arms and two perfect hands to type how mindlessly you were created as a human being. It's a very mindless indeed. (Sarcastic)
Ok well don't let us see you quoting Bible verses. Because I have seen that many times from Atheist which made no sense to me.
So you believe in an afterlife? Your statement indicates you are on the fence about whether or not an afterlife exist.
Fair answer. However tell that to some of your fellow Atheist who refuse to accept this same belief. I wish they could be as truthful with their feelings as you seem to be.
So you believe in God? You said "..it most certainly isn't God" indicating you have a belief in some kind of deity.
Mindless process. Right. The fact that you can even sit down looking at your computer screen with two perfect eyes and two perfect arms and two perfect hands to type how mindlessly you were created as a human being. It's a very mindless indeed. (Sarcastic)
Many people read the Bible who don't believe it to be divinely inspired. It's the most influential book in Western civilization. Surely you could understand how even non-believers would have a curiosity towards it.
An afterlife? I don't know. I'd have to die (really die, no NDE), come back, and then get back to you with a concrete answer to that. I'm all for a life after this one. That doesn't mean I think one exist.
Same goes for a deity. Many atheist are agnostics. You won't find many who know there isn't a God and that it's already a closed case.
Oh boy....I think I'll mostly leave your last comment alone. This thread will plummet into a few hundred pages of back and forth bickering between non-believers and believers if we go there.
Let's just say your eyes aren't perfect. They're actually wired backwards.
Rather selective in your reading of history, aren't you?
Are you saying that anyone who believes differently than you cannot be "saved"? Many would ask, saved from what?
saved from hell.
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