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(First, regarding this quote from you: "while the Atheists go "by blind faith", I'll assume you meant "theists". We atheists don't buy into "blind faith" because, well... it's blind! Yuk!)
So now, take these comments:
"I believe I'll have another beer!"
Or...
"I believe that this bowling ball falling on my foot will hurt!"
Or...
"I believe that this is actually a real fossil in my hands, and not a Godly "plant!"
These are not just fantasies! And what if they all come together (like the evidence for Evolution so clearly does...), such as when I'm looking at a dinosaur fossil a friend brought in, in a bowling alley, whilst enjoying a beer?
It's all too much for my head! It's positively incontrovertible!
Thanx for the "heads-up" on my mistake...I still had "edit" ability...corrected now.
Check this out---I have "blind faith" my parents "love" me. Do I have hard, factual, empirical evidence of it? NOPE!... MOF it's not even something than can even be proven that way...but I KNOW it is a "fact" that they do. So, you see how something based on "blind faith" can still be a "fact" (without "guessing")...despite the lack of "hard evidence"?
Thanx for the "heads-up" on my mistake...I still had "edit" ability...corrected now.
Check this out---I have "blind faith" my parents "love" me. Do I have hard, factual, empirical evidence of it? NOPE!... MOF it's not even something than can even be proven that way...but I KNOW it is a "fact" that they do. So, you see how something based on "blind faith" can still be a "fact" (without "guessing")...despite the lack of "hard evidence"?
Moderator cut: Orphaned
I have hard evidence my mother loves me... she pushed me out of the way to take a hit by a car and ended up in traction. More evidence, she sat with me day and night while I was in the hospital from almost dying of hemorrhaging. My husband, never left my side and thanks me everyday for being his wife. People show their love everyday with what they say and do. Your God, not so much as a whisper of this so called love. Oh and setting "us" straight? NOT EVEN CLOSE!! LOL
I have hard evidence my mother loves me... she pushed me out of the way to take a hit by a car and ended up in traction. More evidence, she sat with me day and night while I was in the hospital from almost dying of hemorrhaging. My husband, never left my side and thanks me everyday for being his wife. People show their love everyday with what they say and do. Your God, not so much as a whisper of this so called love. Oh and setting "us" straight? NOT EVEN CLOSE!! LOL
What you have listed is NOT "hard evidence"...not in a "pure logic", "scientific method testable" sense. What you have listed is indirect evidence. People's acts, words and deeds are not definitive proof of reason or motivation for said acts, words, and deeds. You may be able to draw inferences from what people do, as to why they did it...but not definitive proof. The "pure logic", "reason", "empirical proof", "factual evidence" science guys could probably explain it better...it's 99% of their "game".
And as far as being "set straight" by the new fundie crew...Praise God for sending them to this board! They are better than I could have ever hoped for. Their delivery style is awesome...and they bring a wonderful Fundamental Christian perspective to the board. They are truly "Heaven Sent"!!
What you have listed is NOT "hard evidence"...not in a "pure logic", "scientific method testable" sense. What you have listed is indirect evidence. People's acts, words and deeds are not definitive proof of reason or motivation for said acts, words, and deeds. You may be able to draw inferences from what people do, as to why they did it...but not definitive proof. The "pure logic", "reason", "empirical proof", "factual evidence" science guys could probably explain it better...it's 99% of their "game".
And as far as being "set straight" by the new fundie crew...Praise God for sending them to this board! They are better than I could have ever hoped for. Their delivery style is awesome...and they bring a wonderful Fundamental Christian perspective to the board. They are truly "Heaven Sent"!!
Wrong, sorry, I don't know too many people that would throw themselves in front of a car. Would you for someone you didn't love? You may want to ignore it, but it shows love nothing less. I would die for my kids and family, I would do anything for them because of love.
Fundie crew cracks me up, most of them are completely lost in their arguments and are shown it in the atheists responses so they break down and start throwing insults and nonsense around, if that is the best your "heaven" has, you are in trouble.
Wrong, sorry, I don't know too many people that would throw themselves in front of a car. Would you for someone you didn't love? You may want to ignore it, but it shows love nothing less. I would die for my kids and family, I would do anything for them because of love.
Fundie crew cracks me up, most of them are completely lost in their arguments and are shown it in the atheists responses so they break down and start throwing insults and nonsense around, if that is the best your "heaven" has, you are in trouble.
I'm a Veteran...I was willing to give my life for people I didn't even know, let alone loved. Police and firefighters do it all the time. You must not "know too many".
I didn't say it didn't POTENTIALLY DEMONSTRATE love...I said it can NOT be considered "proof" or "hard evidence" of love...not in a "scientific" sense. Ask some of the Atheist scientists that apply the "scientific method" for a living...if works, acts, or deeds "definitively prove" love...in a purely logical or rational sense.
AgoodChristian and evofreak are a wonderful addition to this board. I prayed for their appearance just last week...and God answered my prayers, and sent them. PRAISE GOD!!
Let's get something straight...Atheists, like Believers..."believe" EVERYTHING they think, regardless of what is is they are contemplating.
OK, lets look at it from this perspective;
You believe a deity based on the complete and total lack of evidence
I do not believe in any deities based on the very same complete and total lack of evidence.
Consider: The argument from ignorance also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false.
But I'm with Rifleman, I believe I'll have another beer , No wait, I KNOW I'll have another beer.
You believe a deity based on the complete and total lack of evidence
I do not believe in any deities based on the very same complete and total lack of evidence.
Consider: The argument from ignorance also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or negative evidence, is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false.
But I'm with Rifleman, I believe I'll have another beer , No wait, I KNOW I'll have another beer.
Moderator cut: deleted - rude
The point I was making...was that the statement, "atheists don't *believe* anything"...is the "logical fallacy". In that, you have to "believe" that even information that was gleaned through "hard evidence" has merit...because that "hard evidence" always has the potential to be in error. It has nothing to do with "negative evidence".
Whether you came to a conclusion through "faith" or "facts"...since both are fallible...it requires you to "believe" that what you have determined to be valid information, is accurate...because it might not be.
"Beliefs" are not all the same -- there are "logical beliefs", and there are "illogical beliefs".
"Illogical beliefs" are also known as "religious beliefs". These "beliefs" are like nothing else in life: they are permanent myths that are designed to fool religious followers.
All humans have "logical beliefs". Any beliefs other than "religious beliefs" are "logical beliefs": these are the beliefs with evidence supports or logical supports (not necessarily 100% certain).
Example:
A: "I believe it's going to rain this morning, I'm going to bring an umbrella."
B: "I believe in God, it will avoid me a trip to hell after I am dead."
A and B are not the same. A is a "logical belief"; B is a "illogical belief". There are rainy days, this is supported by experience evidence. People do not carry an umbrella all the time, when they do, there must be logical reasons. B is different, do you know anyone actually went to hell? If someone tells you the story about going to hell after death, how did he know? Also, what was his motives of telling such story?
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, No wait, I KNOW I'll have another beer.
