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That IS exactly what I was saying--Love is a FACT...and it doesn't need testing to prove it.
I also contend--God is a FACT...and doesn't need testing to prove.
A fact is a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; supported by evidence that has been challenged to disprove it's validity.
Your imaginary deity is NOT a fact, but a fallacy with zero evidence.
If you really wanted to prove to "us" that your deity existed you would welcome the challenge to prove his existence, heck, you would demand it, but alas I have not heard a single believer even suggest that. Now why would that be
It must be a quandary of the mind, common sense tells you it is nonsense, and yet it conflicts so with what you have been taught.
Regardless of "weapons of defense"...police, firefighters, and military put themselves in situations, for someone they do not know or love, when the outcome could be death.
The bottom line is this: Sacrificial acts and deeds may demonstrate love where it exists, but the performance of those acts and deeds does not definitively and categorically "prove" love.
Relative to my original post on the matter---Love IS subjective. 99.99999% of the people that have ever been engaged in a loving relationship of some type, never had said, IMO dubious, scientific testing done to give them the "hard evidence" to "prove" that love. They KNEW it was a FACT without said empirical evidence.
Which was the point I was making--Some information...even though it is subjective...can be considered a "fact"...merely from belief, intuition and perception...with no "hard evidence" to demonstrate "proof"...and that intuition and perception can be useful tools to accurately discern "fact from fiction".
I don't know about Gods sense of humor...but I sure have one...albiet slightly twisted. That's why I prayed for the fundies to appear. And THEY DID!!!
We might have been over this before, but.... I don't interpret love as meaning something literal and concrete. As you said it's mostly subjective. To me love is simply a mix of respect, trust and the general good feelings we get when we're with our loved ones. We all feel something when we're with our parents, our best friends, or the girl we've been falling for. And while this is simply a feeling - something subjective, it is not subjective that we all feel this way from time to time. what we feel may not be objective, but feelings don't lie - they can't... it is 100% factual that we feel things.
...The Universe", "Nature", "All that Exists", etc. They use "default titles" for "God"...then deny God exists. Yet those things they claim "aren't God" show all the attributes of God. How convenient.
The Universe, Nature ... are obviously not God. Think about the stuff you do: you pray, you repent, you rapture ... to your God. Did you ever see any atheists repent, pray to Universe, nature?
Also, God is defined in scriptures. For example, Christian God is the one who made a woman using a rib of a man ... Nature, Universe does not make a woman using a rib of man.
A fact is a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; supported by evidence that has been challenged to disprove it's validity.
Your imaginary deity is NOT a fact, but a fallacy with zero evidence.
If you really wanted to prove to "us" that your deity existed you would welcome the challenge to prove his existence, heck, you would demand it, but alas I have not heard a single believer even suggest that. Now why would that be
It must be a quandary of the mind, common sense tells you it is nonsense, and yet it conflicts so with what you have been taught.
This is where I lose the Atheists EVERY time. I've said it before...and I'll say it again:
If your platform (No God) had ANY "mojo" what-so-ever, I might think there was some obligation to have to support the claim of the existence of God. But your platform is soooooo weak, and lame...it is without-a-doubt on YOU to prove your platform.
HERE is COMMON SENSE---God doesn't enter the ring first....He's the Undefeeeeeated, Reeeeeigning, and Deeeefending...CHAAAAAAAMPIOOOOOOON...Of the UUUUUUUNIVERRRRRRRSE!!!! GOD holds the title...you gotta come with your stuff to defeat Him. So far, you've shown nuthin'...you get knocked out EVERY time. YOUR position is the WEAK CHALLENGER with a 1-9 record...but YOU gonna talk smack about the Champeeeeeen having to PROVE sumthin'. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
God has no burden...He's on top...The GOD CONCEPT defeats all other concepts PUT TOGETHER...10 times over! YOU have to do what YOU can figure out to do to try to make YOUR mark...and that is where YOUR quandary is...as the Atheists have shown woefully ineffective at that.
This is where I lose the Atheists EVERY time. I've said it before...and I'll say it again:
If your platform (No God) had ANY "mojo" what-so-ever, I might think there was some obligation to have to support the claim of the existence of God. But your platform is soooooo weak, and lame...it is without-a-doubt on YOU to prove your platform.
It's not up to atheists to prove there is no god, it's up to you to prove there is one. That means using empirically verified evidence, not arguments based on value judgements or personal experience.
That IS exactly what I was saying--Love is a FACT...and it doesn't need testing to prove it.
I also contend--God is a FACT...and doesn't need testing to prove.
You do see, and feel God...everyone does that is conscious and aware...some just don't chose to label what they are seeing and feeling "God". They label it something else..."The Universe", "Nature", "All that Exists", etc. They use "default titles" for "God"...then deny God exists. Yet those things they claim "aren't God" show all the attributes of God. How convenient.
The universe is the universe, nature is nature, and god is god. Let's call a spade a spade. Gods are considered to be supernatural divine beings, and the universe and nature are none of these things. It almost seems to me as if many people find comfort in being able to label themselves as "god-believers" when in reality, they have no belief in any particular god. If you can label all of these other things as "god" then you won't have to come to the realization that you really are just an atheist in denial.
Yep, cause to follow your logic of "it's fact, yet I absolutely cannot produce a single shred of evidence to support" really really hurts my head
Oh, the evidence is there...and it's overwhelming. You just choose to label what that evidence shows you..."The Universe", "Nature", "All that exists", etc...so you don't have to call it "God". And like I said...that's convienient...but doesn't change that it is prima facie evidence of God
Moderator cut: flame
Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-18-2010 at 08:30 PM..
Reason: rest of this post is what starts flame wars
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