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Escort Rider - perhaps I can explain the anger to you. For us women, from the time we can process ideas we are bombarded with the message that you are being judged by how you look, how pretty you are and what men think of you. I know that men also feel this pressure but not to the extent of women. Many of us were raised in the era where we were considered a failure if we didn't get married by age 25. We were taught that the opinion of men was very important to our existence and many of us have resented it. It may not be rational-but it is very real. Now that we have reached the age (and the cultural changes) where we don't care about strangers opinions (or at least not care as much) we do get angry when someone criticizes our looks.
Thank you for taking the trouble and for your civility. Your explanation is helpful. However, I suppose what I fail to understand fully is being ruled by the ancient past to that extent.
Perhaps I can exlain the anger to you. For us men, from the time we can process ideas we are bombarded with the message that you are being judged by how athletic you are, how successful you must be, how strong you are and what women think of you. I know that women also feel this pressure but not to the extent of men. Many of us were raised in the era where we were considered a failure if we didn't get married by age 25, and already have a successful career. We were taught that the opinions of men and women were very important to our existence and many of us have resented it. It may not be rational-but it is very real. Now that we have reached the age (and the cultural changes) where we don't care about strangers opinions (or at least not care as much) we do get angry when someone criticizes how unsuccessful we were, or never found the right spouse because we weren't or didn't have the looks either.
Not that it's relevant at all to womans haircuts, but I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "Happy husband, happy home". Only "Happy wife, happy life".
In general women are far more emotional than men. This thread has far more female respondents than male. Women are far more sensitive to criticism of their looks than men. There are far, far less options of what a man can do about the looks of his face and hair compared to women. I'm sure you have all seen the list of "Why its easier to be a man than a woman." One of the items is "Same haircut your entire life".
We are all products of our environment and what others think of us. How we handle that is what makes us different.
Thank you for taking the trouble and for your civility. Your explanation is helpful. However, I suppose what I fail to understand fully is being ruled by the ancient past to that extent.
ER,
Unfortunately, the condescending, chauvinistic and paternalistic attitude towards women which some older men (and even in some younger men) has still persist to this day and age and not just in the ancient past!
To a man, the OP's original question may seem innocuous. To many women (as clearly demonstrated in the replies), the judgmental and chauvinistic connotation is quite obvious.
Why did the OP labeled short haircuts 'men's haircuts'? I don't have any problems with him expressing his opinion that he does not find the short haircut attractive. However, the next statement reeks of paternalistic (men know what is better for women) attitude.
"Yet I see women who do this who obviously do other things and spend money to make themselves look better, but then cut their hair mostly off".
Yes, our society has come a long way from the old sexist and racist days but there still plenty of evidence that these 'ancient' attitude still exists. I think the fact that some men including you seem to be incredulous at the strong female reactions to the OP's statement is clear evidence that 'men still don't get it ;-)'.
Cultural norms of long hair for women have had such long-term effects on society that we no longer think about their historical significance. Consider the concept of "a woman's crowning glory", as long hair was referred to for much of the late 19th and early 20th century. Women competed to grow their hair longer than anyone else, and many never cut their hair in their lifetimes. During WWII, the punishment for women who collaborated with the Nazi's (or who were perceived to have collaborated with them) was to shave their heads, thus depriving them of the primary source of their femininity - their long hair. When women began "bobbing" their hair in the early 1900's, it was considered an abomination by many, and women were called "mannish" and unnatural by some.
Personally, I started cutting my hair short at age 12 (53 years ago). I was the only one in my group to do so - everyone else had long, straight hair that they ironed or "put up" in soup cans. I had a "Mia Farrow" cut, and pretty much have had variations of such since then. Occasionally I would try to grow it out, followed by the inevitable relief of cutting it short again. On our second date, my late H told me, "I like women with long hair". My response?: "Well, then don't want to date ME". We were married for 16 years.
Apparantly many women here are not differenting between short hair and a womens short cut. No man would ever call a Twiggy or Mia Farrow or Judy Densch cut a mans cut. Those are womens cuts that are short. My first wife always had very cute short hair. But never a Man's cut! Monster difference. And any women claiming to not see a difference between a feminine short hair cut and a masculine short hair cut is being puposely obstinate to make a point. And since I apparantly have to prevent needless backlash, AFAI am concerned a woman can choose whatever hair stye she wants that makes her happy. Period. And it sure seems to be more age and/or sexual orientation driven, typically.
When women achieve pay parity with men (when both are engaged in the same profession), it will be time for women to feel they are equal.
As they are still paid only about 3/4 of men for doing exactly the same work as a man, frankly any disbelief at categorical gender statements (let alone instructions on beauty issued by strangers) is reasonable enough.
Small in the grand scale of things in a violent world. Large in the sense of unrepentant rudeness viewed as being permissible.
Unfortunately, the condescending, chauvinistic and paternalistic attitude towards women which some older men (and even in some younger men) has still persist to this day and age and not just in the ancient past!
To a man, the OP's original question may seem innocuous. To many women (as clearly demonstrated in the replies), the judgmental and chauvinistic connotation is quite obvious.
Why did the OP labeled short haircuts 'men's haircuts'? I don't have any problems with him expressing his opinion that he does not find the short haircut attractive. However, the next statement reeks of paternalistic (men know what is better for women) attitude.
"Yet I see women who do this who obviously do other things and spend money to make themselves look better, but then cut their hair mostly off".
Yes, our society has come a long way from the old sexist and racist days but there still plenty of evidence that these 'ancient' attitude still exists. I think the fact that some men including you seem to be incredulous at the strong female reactions to the OP's statement is clear evidence that 'men still don't get it ;-)'.
You use all those adjectives (condescending, chauvinistic, paternalistic) but I fail to see what is condescending, chauvinistic, or paternalistic about the OP of this thread. "Out of date fashion standards", yes, I see that. What he calls "men's haircuts" are obviously no longer that, since they have been embraced by some women now. That trend towards there being no more universal grooming standards is 50 or more years old now (think of earrings for men going back about that far). So the OP is guilty of clinging to his life-long concepts of men's and women's haircuts, which is no cause for anger and defensiveness. On the contrary, those of us of a certain age (I am 71) have certain concepts deeply embedded, which is not at all the same as being condescending, chauvinistic, or paternalistic. People could just say, "OP, you need to accept that people no longer abide by traditional styles of dress and grooming, that the world has been changing radically in that regard for a while now, and that is the way it is whether you find it jarring or not." How's that for a rational and objective take on the matter?
When women achieve pay parity with men (when both are engaged in the same profession), it will be time for women to feel they are equal.
As they are still paid only about 3/4 of men for doing exactly the same work as a man, frankly any disbelief at categorical gender statements (let alone instructions on beauty issued by strangers) is reasonable enough.
Small in the grand scale of things in a violent world. Large in the sense of unrepentant rudeness viewed as being permissible.
To hold an opinion about a hair style is not rude.
How's that for a rational and objective take on the matter?
ER,
I'm repeating my rational and objective opinion here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaLL
I think the fact that some men including you seem to be incredulous at the strong female reactions to the OP's statement is clear evidence that 'men still don't get it ;-)'.
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