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It is difficult living in the south and not going to church, let alone being an atheist. I am not sure I would have made the move if I had known how conservative the south was regarding religion.
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90
This is why, on other threads about moving in retirement, many of us talk about fitting into the culture of the place you are moving to. You may not care what others do, or you may have a live and let live attitude, but that doesn't mean your neighbors in your new area feel the same way.
I think I could fit in pretty well, culturally, in Appalachia, particularly East Tennessee or western North Carolina or southwest Virginia except for the religious aspect. It's not just that people are religious, it's that most are apparently one religion: Baptist, albeit of numerous varieties of Baptist.
The one thing I love about Upstate New York is that even though it's a pretty conservative area, it's largely a libertarian type of conservatism, especially concerning religion. It's probably because there have been and continue to be so many different religions and denominations in this area that people here are just used to being around people who believe differently.
I am sure most believers in God never question putting their hand on a bible. But if you are on a trial and are called to the witness stand, you are asked to put your hand on the bible and swear to God that you are telling the truth. When the president was sworn into office, he was asked to put his hand on the bible. No one considers that you might not believe in God. Do I say to the judge, I won't put my hand on the bible because I don't believe in God or the Bible? This is just a given in our society. So atheists are not treated as equals, even though our country says that we are free to believe whatever we want to believe.
I did a little reading. Here is the presidential oath:
Quote:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
There is no requirement to use a bible or mention God. According to Wikipedia (not the best reference) here are some who did not use a bible.
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Theodore Roosevelt did not use a Bible when taking the oath in 1901. Both John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce swore on a book of law, with the intention that they were swearing on the constitution.[ Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One. Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, and Barack Obama each swore the oath on two Bibles. Washington took his oath of office with an altar bible borrowed from the St. John's Lodge No. 1, Ancient York Masons lodge in New York and he kissed the Bible after taking the oath of office. Subsequent presidents followed suit, up to and including Harry Truman, but Eisenhower broke that tradition by saying his own prayer instead of kissing the Bible
As to courts, they seem to vary. Some require a bible and some don't. I did not research this extensively.
If I had to testify in court I would ask my lawyer ahead of time what to do.
I just read a survey that showed that all of the first world countries in the world were less religious than the second or third world countries. Makes sense as the more advances societies tend to have higher levels of education, life expectancy and greater incomes that the others. Perhaps many people know that how to effect the biggest changes in their lives these days, lies in their own hands, rather than that of a deity.
As to courts, they seem to vary. Some require a bible and some don't. I did not research this extensively.
If I had to testify in court I would ask my lawyer ahead of time what to do.
Why? There are no consequences to swearing on a Bible.
If I had to testify in court, I would tell the truth to the best of my ability, because not to do so is perjury. If they want me to swear on a Bible, or the yellow pages, or The Tale of Peter Rabbit, it wouldn't change my testimony.
I just read a survey that showed that all of the first world countries in the world were less religious than the second or third world countries. Makes sense as the more advances societies tend to have higher levels of education, life expectancy and greater incomes that the others. Perhaps many people know that how to effect the biggest changes in their lives these days, lies in their own hands, rather than that of a deity.
The US is the anomaly with a high percentage of religious people.
I did a little reading. Here is the presidential oath:
There is no requirement to use a bible or mention God. According to Wikipedia (not the best reference) here are some who did not use a bible.
As to courts, they seem to vary. Some require a bible and some don't. I did not research this extensively.
If I had to testify in court I would ask my lawyer ahead of time what to do.
I have had to testify in court a couple of times. All I was asked to do was raise my right hand and swear I would "tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."
I don't know if the fact that I am left handed made it any less meaningful.
I've had to testify several times in various courts and all I had to do is raise my right hand and swear to" tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth".
No one ever questioned my religion or thoughts. The only question ever asked of me was I adverse to the death penalty. I said no.
I have kept up with this thread from the beginning and I think I am the only Christian who responded. Obviously you guys are very sensitive about this as you should be. Christians don't have to worry.
This kind of typically American attitude is a major reason I am happy to have emigrated from the U.S. and prefer living in a country where belief in a god or non-belief simply isn't an issue. Believe/don't believe, go to church/don't go to church...and nobody gets an attitude about it.
I am sure most believers in God never question putting their hand on a bible. But if you are on a trial and are called to the witness stand, you are asked to put your hand on the bible and swear to God that you are telling the truth.
When I was last sworn in as a member of a jury pool we all were just sworn in on our own recognizance. There was no Bible in evidence.
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Originally Posted by organic_donna
When the president was sworn into office, he was asked to put his hand on the bible.
That's because President Obama is a Christian. The hand-on-Bible thing is a personal decision on the part of the person being sworn in, not a codified part of the process, just like which tie or scarf the person being sworn in wears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by organic_donna
No one considers that you might not believe in God. Do I say to the judge, I won't put my hand on the bible because I don't believe in God or the Bible?
Yes. Christians don't want you misappropriating their holy book any more than you want to misappropriate it. If pushed to place my hand on something, I would probably choose the Universal Statement of Human Rights and the Seven Principles of Unitarian Universalism.
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Originally Posted by organic_donna
This is just a given in our society.
That's like a women saying that wage injustice is just a given in our society. It is a given because you say that. That which you've mentioned is not an actual given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by organic_donna
So atheists are not treated as equals, even though our country says that we are free to believe whatever we want to believe.
You've got to do a lot more work on your own before you're ready to enjoy the freedom you already have. What you'll find once you get there is that atheists are not treated as equals in our society, but for a number of things different from that which you've referenced as example.
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