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Old 03-13-2016, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,539 posts, read 44,018,537 times
Reputation: 15140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
I think the problem came when all of these sub-prime mortgages were bought up and packaged together and sold to one or two investment houses. IIRC, some people actually lied about the veracity of many of the loans. If ten banks each have three bad loans, well, they can probably handle that financially. If one bank is stuck with a million bad loans, that's another story altogether.

Disclaimer: I don't really follow the financial news, so I could be off about my statements above. They are just the 'sense' I have about the bail-outs.
You are absolutely correct. NYT ran a very long series of articles on the meltdown. The CDO's - which the investment houses KNEW were garbage - were bundled by them and sold worldwide. No one has yet or ever will go to jail for this - and yet, the result was the disappearance of the credit markets which in turn resulted in the collapse of thousands of businesses, which caused loss of close to ten million jobs which caused millions to default on their mortgages, which caused the precipitious declines of property values, the after-effects of which still overhang the economy now in the form of huge numbers on food stamps, working for poverty wages, no upward mobility - and now capitalism without a conscience daring to say American companies can't find skilled workers all the while hiring foreign workers and using their so-called incompetent current workers to train their "more competent" replacements. Greed, mendacity, lack of conscience rule.

I don't trust Hillary, she's more of the same on the corporate side. Also don't think her judgment on foreign affairs is all that great. Certainly can't trust her on trade. Remember Ross Perot and "that giant sucking sound?" Lack of FAIR trade has been the ruination of the middle class - just like good 'ol Ross said it would be.

Sanders is having a great last hurrah, but "free" school and expanded SS benefits are unattainable when the country's workers - who pay into SS - are working for 1980's wages? Sorry, that doesn't compute.

Trump is so crass I can't listen to him, although I am opposed to the protestors who interrupt his rallies. This rabble's right to free speech does not give them the right to disrupt and impede the free speech of others. If these so-called "sincere" "thinking" "protestors don't like a candidate they have no business being at his rally. Instead, as the "responsible" citizens they are, they should exercise their RIGHT to VOTE. Now there's a novel concept.

Can't stand Cruz - he's a r-wing nut, imo. His voice to me is like nails on a chalkboard. Rubio is a kid.

I hope Kasich gets through. He's the only reasonable, competent candidate out there. But, he's not charismactic or sensational enough to get the attention he deserves. I said years ago I would never vote for another Republican as long as I live, but I don't want to vote for Hillary and Sanders is too far to the left, for me. So, Kasich it is. If, worst case, Trump is the nominee and puts Kasich on the ticket, I would vote for Trump. Otherwise, I will have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary and watch the country fall further into the global labor-arbitrage abyss.

In the end, I doubt the election will affect me personally - because I'm too old. SS should last the duration. Unless tax policy changes to the point where my moderate income is subject to higher taxes (which I don't think will happen), I'll just watch sadly from the sidelines the clown show which is now our politics and government.

 
Old 03-13-2016, 02:11 PM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
the cdo's were not garbage starting out . the problem is the way the cdo's were brought to market .

with interest rates falling the public and institutions wanted more yield . grandma and grandpa were just as guilty as the pension funds on putting pressure on wall street to find them yield that was safe .


so they took the same mortgage bundles that were always sold and added a new twist to them .

they sold them to conservative group A just the same as they always did , but group B who wanted higher yield got offered the same bundle as group A but with a twist . they couldn't get paid off until group A was paid . group C got even a higher rate but they couldn't get paid until A AND B got paid .

well when news started breaking about the fact that loans were made that shouldn't have and home prices started to stall out group B AND C wanted out . but no one wanted to buy them .

eventually investor groups stopped buying mortgages and loan bundles because they couldn't sell what the had and the credit markets froze . they couldn't even value these bundles since no one wanted them with those terms .

throw in the fact in the credit default swap market bets were made against these loans being paid off while at the same time trying to sell these packaged loans to investors . the bets on the payoffs became bigger then the loans . the major players got crushed when their default swap bets went bad .


there really was no crime on these cdo's it was only how they were marketed as well as bet against .
 
Old 03-13-2016, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
21,539 posts, read 44,018,537 times
Reputation: 15140
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the cdo's were not garbage starting out . the problem is the way the cdo's were brought to market .

with interest rates falling the public and institutions wanted more yield . grandma and grandpa were just as guilty as the pension funds on putting pressure on wall street to find them yield that was safe .


so they took the same mortgage bundles that were always sold and added a new twist to them .

they sold them to conservative group A just the same as they always did , but group B who wanted higher yield got offered the same bundle as group A but with a twist . they couldn't get paid off until group A was paid . group C got even a higher rate but they couldn't get paid until A AND B got paid .

well when news started breaking about the fact that loans were made that shouldn't have and home prices started to stall out group B AND C wanted out . but no one wanted to buy them .

eventually investor groups stopped buying mortgages and loan bundles because they couldn't sell what the had and the credit markets froze . they couldn't even value these bundles since no one wanted them with those terms .

throw in the fact in the credit default swap market bets were made against these loans being paid off while at the same time trying to sell these packaged loans to investors . the bets on the payoffs became bigger then the loans . the major players got crushed when their default swap bets went bad .


there really was no crime on these cdo's it was only how they were marketed as well as bet against .
Thank you for that very excellent, clear and succinct explanation. Brings it all back. Tranches and all. I will never forget those years - when the money market funds "broke the buck." Never even knew such a term existed until then.
 
Old 03-13-2016, 02:33 PM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
it was my money market fund that broke the buck . they held Lehman paper
 
Old 03-14-2016, 04:37 AM
 
Location: R.I.
978 posts, read 606,070 times
Reputation: 4242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
I understand the basic rules for Medicaid. That is why I mentioned just enjoying my assets and giving them away or using them to the fullest.


And the VA is a wonderful option. Politicians are universally in favor of improving VA benefits. The VA is all for growing and providing more. No one is concerned about overpayments. The VA seems really anxious to provide me with services regardless of the rules that are supposed to limit coverage based on income and assets.
I work for VA healthcare and the original mission for this organization was to provide healthcare to the poor and disabled Veteran. Years back the door was opened to all Veterans regardless of income and lack of service connected disabilities in an attempt to keep this organization viable and obtain additional funding. But that is all back firing now and those Veterans that were lured into the system who are neither service connected disabled or low income are now billed copays for medications, physician visits, etc. The physicians I work with are actually writing hard copy prescriptions for non copay exempt Veterans to take to Walmart to get them filled because what they pay there is cheaper than their VA copay!! Or try to walk into you local VA trying to get a non VA pharmacy formulary medication that was written by your community doctor filled at a VA pharmacy. You will be required to provide supportive documentation from your community provider that you have medical conditions proved by lab tests, x-ray reports, etc. that you need this medication. Often times the VA pharmacy will not approve the medication request and make treatment recommendations with VA formulary medications. If your condition fails to respond to these medications then at that point you may get the medication you requested. I had a patient who had three 911 visits to the ER with severe hypoglycemia when his diabetes was treated with a VA pharmacy recommended insulin regimen before his request for Lantus insulin was approved!!

Like many VA hospitals, the one I work at years back had 300 inpatient beds and now we are down to 50. A third of those beds are for psychiatric admissions, and the remainder are for medical and surgical admissions. What that means is very strict criteria is implemented for admissions, as well as patients are discharged home often times sooner than they should. When I go into work today a good part of my day will be fielding phone calls from VNA nurses who are admitting patients to their service that were discharged over the weekend. More often than not they are calling in with great concern over the status of the patients that were discharged in poor condition often times without new medications and necessary supplies. Unknown to my boss, I actually left work one day to deliver insulin syringes to a homebound patient who was a new onset diabetic and put in insulin during their admission and sent home with insulin but no syringes to administer it. He was discharged on a Saturday so went without insulin for two days before I could get the syringes to him. I had him test his blood glucose when I delivered the syringes and it tested at 350 with norm being 70-110. Another day without insulin would have meant readmission or maybe worse.

If your local VA is reaching out to you as a healthcare option it is because that particular facility gets big bucks for delivering that one annual primary care visit to you. But after that visit, if you happen to need to see an orthopedic surgeon or a gastroenterologist you may have a several month wait or more if your consult was lost in cyberspace. Better yet, if you need to see a dermatologist for some new funky looking lesion on your face, if your local VA has instituted a Telederm service you will get called in to see the Telederm technician. This technician will take a picture of that lesion and send it off to a dermatologist to make a cyber diagnosis. That lesion may turn out to be benign, but the other lesion that is in a skin fold that you did not know you had and would have be found during a face to face visit could be a deadly melanoma.

Make no mistake about it the VA is the testing grounds for socialized medicine in this country and care IS rationed. IMO the VA has failed miserably because those who make the rules are the ones with big salaries and big bonuses which are heavily attached to care providers adherence to those rules. And those rules do not often translate into quality positive outcome healthcare. If you are currently receiving quality care at your local VA it is because you have a very good doctor and healthcare team that is likely breaking a few rules along the way to deliver you that quality care.

"A wonderful option" I beg to differ.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 04:50 AM
 
71,592 posts, read 71,751,865 times
Reputation: 49194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
Thank you for that very excellent, clear and succinct explanation. Brings it all back. Tranches and all. I will never forget those years - when the money market funds "broke the buck." Never even knew such a term existed until then.
the real bone crusher was the credit default swap market . it is insane what that turned in to .

imagine i loaned you 20k . i get wind from a co-worker of yours that you screwed up a big project . i tell that co-worker i am kind of nervous i just loaned you 20k .

they go , you know they really are such a good worker that i don't think this screw up will effect their job and they are so ethical they will pay you . they then go i will bet you 1k that you get paid .

someone else who knows you hears about our bet and they want in , they bet me 5k you will pay up .

so on and so on more and more get in to the bet betting either way on your paying me off .

before long we have millions in bets on whether a 20k loan will get paid . there will be a huge sum of money lost if you bet on the wrong side here .

i could lose more money betting you people if i am wrong then the loan was worth .

this is how our credit default swap markets operate . there are hundreds of billions if not trillions bet daily on loans . this is what did Lehman and aig the most harm when they were so leveraged in these bets .

once the credit markets locked up money which is the blood of business ceased to flow and we had layoffs , defaults and a huge down turn as well as real estate took a hit and now worsened things .

the real estate plunge and job losses were the effect of not the cause of what happened . the cause was the creation of untested cdo products and the resulting losses in the credit default swap markets which locked up the flow of money .

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-14-2016 at 04:58 AM..
 
Old 03-14-2016, 05:30 AM
 
6,254 posts, read 4,734,369 times
Reputation: 12845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariadne22 View Post
............................

I hope Kasich gets through. ................

In the end, I doubt the election will affect me personally - because I'm too old. SS should last the duration. ...........
As a retiree, Kasich is the last candidate I would want as President. He is the only candidate who has advocated cutting social security benefits now and for existing retirees. He has a wonderful calm mannerism in contrast to the other Republican candidates but don't let that fool you.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 05:44 AM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,450,730 times
Reputation: 13709
Ariadne22 states:

"I said years ago I would never vote for another Republican as long as I live, but I don't want to vote for Hillary and Sanders is too far to the left, for me. So, Kasich it is. If, worst case, Trump is the nominee and puts Kasich on the ticket, I would vote for Trump. Otherwise, I will have to hold my nose and vote for Hillary and watch the country fall further into the global labor-arbitrage abyss."

Those are some of the wildest ideas I've ever encountered and the wildest leaps of reasoning & logic ever......a person who finds sense in being willing to vote for Trump or Hillary.

The epitome of non-reasoning and non-logic.

And being willing to vote for Trump if he picks Kasich as his VP. Trump is a disgrace to our nation.

(voting for Hillary, I would suggest)

It makes me despair deeply about the electorate. not joking

Last edited by matisse12; 03-14-2016 at 06:26 AM..
 
Old 03-14-2016, 06:03 AM
 
6,254 posts, read 4,734,369 times
Reputation: 12845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale212 View Post
.......Years back the door was opened to all Veterans regardless of income and lack of service connected disabilities in an attempt to keep this organization viable and obtain additional funding. But that is all back firing now and those Veterans that were lured into the system who are neither service connected disabled or low income are now billed copays for medications, physician visits, etc. ..........


If your local VA is reaching out to you as a healthcare option it is because that particular facility gets big bucks for delivering that one annual primary care visit to you. But after that visit,....you may have a several month wait ....


If you are currently receiving quality care at your local VA it is because you have a very good doctor and healthcare team that is likely breaking a few rules along the way to deliver you that quality care.

"A wonderful option" I beg to differ.

I am sure your warnings match the status of VA healthcare in your area. It seems that the availability and quality of VA healthcare services can vary greatly. I am only aware of VA services in three areas: Portland, Or, Hilo, Hawaii, and Long Island, NY.


I have visited Portland a couple of times and scheduled last minute appointments for labs, physicals and counseling services. All have worked well. I still get prescription drugs through that office. I have a co-pay but it is extremely low. No one has asked about my financial situation.


I have a brother in law who lives in Hilo. He has comprehensive healthcare coverage but goes to the VA facility for all his medical needs because of the quality of service and low cost. He is planning on using the VA long term care facility when he gets older and is no longer able to care for himself. He knows how to evaluate his choices because he used to work in healthcare on a national level dealing with long term SNF care.


In Long Island, I have a friend who has told me for years that I should us the VA for all of my healthcare. He makes a hefty 6 figure income, has comprehensive medical insurance, and works for a private healthcare system but still uses the VA. Last Spring I had a sleep study done ... outside of the VA. I needed additional testing and followup that was not covered by Medicare. My doctor told me she also worked part time for the VA. My doctor told me to come through the VA and she could provide all of the additional testing, followup and equipment at no charge with minimal additional delay.


So again, I can only conclude VA coverage varies and your experience does not reflect my limited knowledge and experience with the VA system.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 06:05 AM
 
5,426 posts, read 3,450,730 times
Reputation: 13709
Social Security: The GOP vs. the American People

"Senator Marco Rubio, Senator Ted Cruz, and supposed-moderate, Governor John Kasich -- expressed their strong desire for huge Social Security benefit cuts."
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