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Old 03-14-2016, 10:23 AM
 
6,253 posts, read 4,731,924 times
Reputation: 12845

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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Kick the can.

Illegal immigration became a tidal wave in the 80's. 30 years later, here we are. It has not mattered which party sat the oval or held the majority.

And we know why. The California agricultural industry wanted cheap labor and they used their influence and money to get it. With or without a wall, this could be ended immediately. No proof of citizenship, not green card, then no jobs. Of course, we would need a massive guest worker program.

 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:25 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,764 posts, read 7,824,529 times
Reputation: 13083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
There is more than ample blame to go around, but people like to always pin blame on the banks alone. Even if the bank would give you the mortgage, the borrower needs to be responsible enough and have enough basic sense to gauge what they can and can't afford.
Very true.

Although I had no real credit history (except for the usual utility bills), I had been at my job for ten years at that point. I'm sure the bank called my employer and I also wrote a letter to the mortgage lender pleading for them to give me the loan and explained some personal things about why it was so important to me.

I was told I could afford a mortgage of around $100k. I bought a house for $70k and put $3k down. No way was I going to stretch to make payment on a hundred grand!

It's funny; a few years after I bought my house I was watching one of those house hunter shows and a woman who made yearly about what I did at the time was purchasing a house for $550k! Although it was a two-family and she would get rental income, I still thought she was a fool. Of course, this was when people were going crazy for houses (2003 or 2004?).
 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:34 AM
 
5,448 posts, read 2,013,160 times
Reputation: 6898
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there really was no crime on these cdo's it was only how they were marketed as well as bet against .
Yes, there was a crime. It was outright FRAUD. Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley and B of A all fined nearly $3 Billion. 161 separate charges brought against these banks. And yes, the SEC used the word "fraud" and these banks were convicted of and fined for the fraud they perpetuated against investors.

This was not a matter of accidentally mislabeling a bad product and calling it good. There was criminal intent to defraud investors and they were found guilty of it.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:36 AM
 
6,253 posts, read 4,731,924 times
Reputation: 12845
Somehow the politicians and government officials forget that they pushed for subprime loans. Home ownership was supposed to fix lots of society's issues. Lenders were threatened and investigated for "redlining" if they did not offer enough risky loans in minority neighborhoods.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Very true.

Although I had no real credit history (except for the usual utility bills), I had been at my job for ten years at that point. I'm sure the bank called my employer and I also wrote a letter to the mortgage lender pleading for them to give me the loan and explained some personal things about why it was so important to me.

I was told I could afford a mortgage of around $100k. I bought a house for $70k and put $3k down. No way was I going to stretch to make payment on a hundred grand!

It's funny; a few years after I bought my house I was watching one of those house hunter shows and a woman who made yearly about what I did at the time was purchasing a house for $550k! Although it was a two-family and she would get rental income, I still thought she was a fool. Of course, this was when people were going crazy for houses (2003 or 2004?).
What were you making at the time, if you don't mind me asking? The extra $30k would be what - $150/$200 month more?

People need to exercise the use of credit responsibly, but having no credit complicates even routine business. To a degree, I think the blowout from overextension may have been overstated - being from east Tennessee, we didn't go through the massive booms and busts that some areas went through, and I don't know anyone personally who got caught up in the frenzy.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,581 posts, read 17,567,761 times
Reputation: 27667
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Somehow the politicians and government officials forget that they pushed for subprime loans. Home ownership was supposed to fix lots of society's issues. Lenders were threatened and investigated for "redlining" if they did not offer enough risky loans in minority neighborhoods.
True. The government heavily incentivized it, the banks made big money on origination fees, ARMs, and other instruments, and borrowers just kept going the more rope was dealt out.

There are some markets out there that are getting plenty frothy, and long-term residents in those areas who are or soon to be retired can often make a mint from equity.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 10:53 AM
 
6,253 posts, read 4,731,924 times
Reputation: 12845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Yes, there was a crime. It was outright FRAUD. Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley and B of A all fined nearly $3 Billion. 161 separate charges brought against these banks. And yes, the SEC used the word "fraud" and these banks were convicted of and fined for the fraud they perpetuated against investors.

This was not a matter of accidentally mislabeling a bad product and calling it good. There was criminal intent to defraud investors and they were found guilty of it.
What convictions?? The banks "settled" these charges. And of course no bankers actually went to jail for illegal behavior because the actual evidence would not lead to convictions. Our government is a horrible bully when it comes to threatening legal action. Almost every company always "settles" because there is no way to win against the government. I was a middle level employee in a company that the Federal government decided had committed "fraud." Federal action would have shut the company down and resulted in bankruptcy way, way before any case would have gone to trial. There was no choice but to settle for tens of millions in fines. Two of the company officers even had to agree to short jail terms. Of course the government was fair. It proceeded to go to one company after another in the same industry and collected fines. Years afterwards the federal government finally came out with regulations that prohibited the previously acceptable business practices.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 11:53 AM
 
71,584 posts, read 71,730,589 times
Reputation: 49178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Yes, there was a crime. It was outright FRAUD. Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley and B of A all fined nearly $3 Billion. 161 separate charges brought against these banks. And yes, the SEC used the word "fraud" and these banks were convicted of and fined for the fraud they perpetuated against investors.

This was not a matter of accidentally mislabeling a bad product and calling it good. There was criminal intent to defraud investors and they were found guilty of it.
wrong , it wasn't fraud when it came to the cdo's being discussed . the fraud , falsifying documents and all the other stuff are a different issue then being discussed,

there was no fraud involved in the cdo's .
 
Old 03-14-2016, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,507,006 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
And when did politicians begin to pay attention to the voters? Campaign promises seem to fall by the wayside after an election.
They always pay attention to the voting blocs in order to get the vote.

All politicians make promises, few keep them.
Yet we have a plethora of career politicians in DC that keep getting re-elected over and over.

People have short memories.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,507,006 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the problem was credit wise they were fine . they were no different then any other mortgage bundle sold prior . the difference was in the creation of the way it went to market and that was not a credit issue . the credit worthiness never changed .. DEMAND for the tiered product is what changed .

in fact the big issue was no one , not even the credit agency's could value this stuff . it was the same old mix of good and bad mortgages same as always .
Subprime mortgages weren't supposed to get AAA insured ratings.
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