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Absolutely I think this all starts from home and how you raise your kids. In this regard MUCH has changed even over the short run and in the past decade or two. There are so many multi-cultural families now which is wonderful.
As well, "more of America is browning from the bottom up" as this excellent article in today's Wall Street Journal mentions. More white Americans died than were born for the first time for the first time in modern history in the USA.
I mentioned this in other threads last year but in the PUSD preschool that our daughter went to last year.... white kids were the clear minority in her class and it was great for our daughter to be around so many cultures and races.
Yeah it will be very interesting to watch the nation change. I also heard somewhere that the black population's increase has leveled off and also may be declining slowly as well although not as significant as whites. The US most certainly is browning for sure. I also heard that Asians are actually the fastest growing group.
I mentioned this in other threads last year but in the PUSD preschool that our daughter went to last year.... white kids were the clear minority in her class and it was great for our daughter to be around so many cultures and races.
This is what you are seeing. Among children under 5 years of age in this Country, 49.9% are Non-White.
Yep. Exactly sdurbanite. This is exactly the trend I'm seeing. And that article is spot on target about Asians being the fastest growing race in 2012. I'm also seeing that trend around here as well. In her new school here (also in PUSD) more and more of the kids are Asian or multi-cultural with at least one of the parents being of Asian heritage.
That trend looks like it will most likely continue heading into the future, especially here in San Diego. Our Asian friends tend to have a few things in common including being highly educated, having professional jobs that pay pretty well, being VERY involved with their kid's education, etc.
Location: In the basket with the other deplorables
130 posts, read 386,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyretirement
Gentoo and queenvic. Again, I'm terribly sorry to hear that you both had to deal with racism issues. I just think in today's day and age that is horrible. I'd really appreciate it if you'd share details of the type of things you went through.
Would you mind doing that just so we can get a better understanding of what you went through? Would you admit those things are clearly not happening in San Diego today? Or would you say they are still going on?
I moved away from SD in March 2009, so my feelings are just a step above being "raw", so pardon me if I do not detail every tidbit of information, only for people of white privilege to dissect my comments and tell me how a specific scenario was "not that bad". I FEEL THIS IS WHY MOST BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT SPEAK UP ABOUT RACISM OR DISCRIMINATION THAT THEY EXPERIENCE.
I want to think that this question is meant with decency and curiosity, but at the same time - if someone tells you that they felt that something was racism...9 times out of 10, it was racism!! It's actually rather condescending to question it. I will, nevertheless, briefly entertain this.
All I will say is that I have been asked invasive questions regarding "being black" (as if all blacks share the same experiences) and what I hate the most is that I am put in a position to answer such ridiculous questions (usually in a group setting). I have been called a gorilla before, I have been in situations before where my mere presence in a room seems to evoke discomfort and sometimes animosity in certain whites. There are certain areas where I could not go unless I wanted to be stared at or looked upon with suspicion. There were some people who "feared" me when they first met me, and when I questioned them about it, they revealed it was based on what they saw in the media about blacks. There are people who I met, in the 21st century, who told me that I was the first "black person" that they had ever had a conversation with (like I care to hear that). When I entered into an interracial relationship (bw/wm), there were so many stares, gawking, comments (and one time a stranger (wf) even took a cell phone photo of us). And on 3 separate occassions 3 waitresses (all white females) blatantly flirted with him right in front of me (of course because he should not be with me because "they" are the archetypal woman that every man wants because they are SO friggin hot, right?). I don't get jealous very often and I am very secure with who I am, so it did not bother me, but I definitely made mental note of my observations. Eventually we would go to South Bay (Chula Vista or IB) or Los Angeles for our dates just to have some peace and a sense of normalcy.
Basically I could not stand anymore of the ignorance, disrespect, and insensitivity. For the record, I lived in SD for 25+ years, I grew up there, and my mother unfortunately still lives there. My cup just ran over from the B.S. and I had enough. Eventually after so many negative encounters, I realized that SD was not the right fit for me, hell it probably never was. These experiences had changed who I was for the worse. These last 4 years have been about my rediscovery and getting back to the person that I used to be, before I let any of those negative encounters somehow penetrate my soul. And that's all that I have to say about that.
Wow, those things that happened to you are HORRIBLE and I'm truly sorry that you had to deal with truly IGNORANT people like that.
Again, I admitted that I haven't met too many black people here in San Diego. But as I posted, the ones that I have met mentioned that they love San Diego. And we specifically discussed how people are and that they haven't had any issues at all. Sure, I guess they could have been lying to me and they are having problems but they sure didn't seem like it.
And one of my VERY close college friends was black and he lived here for many years. His experiences were VERY different from your experiences.
I know there are some black Citydata members that post here so if they feel comfortable sharing their personal experiences that would be great too and I'm sure it would be hugely beneficial for other CD members.
I had lunch with a Citydata member a few weeks ago and we specifically mentioned this and he said he and his family LOVED San Diego and haven't had any issues at all. But obviously I'm really sorry that you had to deal with this kind of racism in ANY city, let alone San Diego.
You would think in this day and age you wouldn't have to deal with this sort of thing. I look forward to the day when no one has to deal with this kind of ignorant behavior.
queenvic, I am curious. Do you think that your experience is unique in how poorly you were treated? Or do you think you were the exception and not the norm? Did your other black friends experience the same types of problems here?
Last edited by earlyretirement; 06-16-2013 at 07:37 PM..
Location: In the basket with the other deplorables
130 posts, read 386,867 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlyretirement
queenvic, I am curious. Do you think that your experience is unique in how poorly you were treated? Or do you think you were the exception and not the norm? Did your other black friends experience the same types of problems here?
I sure hope that you are not hinting that I may be overly sensitive....
Briefly, I will say that I do not believe that my experience was unique. I believe that some people have different tolerance levels to b.s. - I used to have high tolerance until I just didn't anymore. It also depends on the individual (again, black people's experiences and how they ingest those experiences are different, remember...?) and how awake they are in their own lives. Just because someone says that they have had "no issues", does not mean that they did not experience any racial prejudice. Perhaps they did, but it was "not an issue" for them. It wasn't an issue for me for many years until one day it was. Some people coast through life on a superficial level - me, I think and question more deeply than the average person, or so I am learning.
In my defense, I will say that I do not believe that there is anything abnormally unique about me which would warrant any of the behavior that I experienced.
Why are you assuming that I had "black friends"? That's a very strong assumption to make.
I will say that I have heard some blacks (family, so-called friends, or even a lady in the grocery store line) complain about various things, but it is a complacency thing. Most people complain and deal with it because they MAY feel helpless or afraid to change their circumstances for whatever reason. Some people may be afraid that where they relocate to could be worse than where they left from. Me? I had nothing left to lose.
Come to think of it, a friend of mine about 20 years ago, who was from Louisiana moved back there because she said, "at least in the south they let you know they don't like you instead of smiling and then stabbing you in the back".
If it's all the same to you, I won't be answering any more questions. There's something about this that does not sit right with me.
I hope the main takeaway at this point is that just because "some" blacks deny that there is racial discrimination and/or prejudice in SD, does not mean that is true for everyone who lived in SD, and those "some" certainly do not speak for me or any other black person. They only speak for themselves. Again, blacks are not a homogenous group, just as whites are not. I hope gentoo and I shed some light, if any.
I sure hope that you are not hinting that I may be overly sensitive....
Briefly, I will say that I do not believe that my experience was unique. I believe that some people have different tolerance levels to b.s. - I used to have high tolerance until I just didn't anymore. It also depends on the individual (again, black people's experiences and how they ingest those experiences are different, remember...?) and how awake they are in their own lives. Just because someone says that they have had "no issues", does not mean that they did not experience any racial prejudice. Perhaps they did, but it was "not an issue" for them. It wasn't an issue for me for many years until one day it was. Some people coast through life on a superficial level - me, I think and question more deeply than the average person, or so I am learning.
In my defense, I will say that I do not believe that there is anything abnormally unique about me which would warrant any of the behavior that I experienced.
Why are you assuming that I had "black friends"?That's a very strong assumption to make.
I will say that I have heard some blacks (family, so-called friends, or even a lady in the grocery store line) complain about various things, but it is a complacency thing. Most people complain and deal with it because they MAY feel helpless or afraid to change their circumstances for whatever reason. Some people may be afraid that where they relocate to could be worse than where they left from. Me? I had nothing left to lose.
If it's all the same to you, I won't be answering any more questions. There's something about this that does not sit right with me.
I hope the main takeaway at this point is that just because "some" blacks deny that there is racial discrimination and/or prejudice in SD, does not mean that is true for everyone who lived in SD, and those "some" certainly do not speak for me or any other black person. Again, blacks are not a homogenous group, just as whites are not. I hope gentoo and I shed some light, if any.
NO, absolutely not at all am I even hinting that you may be oversensitive at all. Not in the least. I just genuinely am curious about this sort of thing.
As well, I don't want to assume you had black friends. Asked and answered. I'm sorry if that question comes across to you as a "strong assumption" or offended you in any way. That was not my intent.
Sure, you are free not to answer any questions at all. That's totally your right and no problem at all. Absolutely I am NOT saying that racism doesn't exist because black people I spoke to mentioned they didn't encounter the problems you did. I just think that it's healthy to discuss issues like this sometimes but certainly I understand if you prefer not to talk about it.
NO, absolutely not at all am I even hinting that you may be oversensitive at all. Not in the least. I just genuinely am curious about this sort of thing.
As well, I don't want to assume you had black friends. Asked and answered. I'm sorry if that question comes across to you as a "strong assumption" or offended you in any way. That was not my intent.
Sure, you are free not to answer any questions at all. That's totally your right and no problem at all. Absolutely I am NOT saying that racism doesn't exist because black people I spoke to mentioned they didn't encounter the problems you did. I just think that it's healthy to discuss issues like this sometimes but certainly I understand if you prefer not to talk about it.
Thanks for sharing what you did.
ER, you know I like you (altho' sometimes I don't know why ), so I'm not going for your jugular. Truly. But you often do come off on the offensive and put people on the defensive (it seems to me). Because you aren't aware of something and/or because you don't think it's true and/or because no one you know -- or have EVER known -- has experienced something -- well, then, of course it can't be true. So then you want the other poster to explain in detail who/what/where/why this situation/these situations happened -- and even THEN you don't believe it, because it isn't within the realm of your experience. You will not grant people the validity of their experiences simply because they state them.
And, of course, if it isn't true for you it can't be true for anyone else, because, as you remind us all frequently (altho' you may think it's subtle, I don't think so at all) -- you have money, you own businesses, you've lived in Europe, you've traveled all over the world and all over The US. But if what you say is true -- and I've never asked you to prove it -- you also live in a very upscale gated community in SD (how many Blacks live there, I wonder). And your life experiences are very different than the vast majority of the rest of us. To say the least.
After any of us have been on C-D for a while, we begin to suspect that not everyone is telling the truth. Some people lie. Some people exaggerate. If, as I've learned from my research about C-D is true and C-D really is a sliver representation of the (mostly) US population, then we can pretty much assume that some people do lie and exaggerate because that is what happens everyday 'in real life'. Outside of C-D we all know people who lie and/or exaggerate. Some of them are not our friends and are never going to be, and some are our friends and we love them anyway, because we know that they -- and we ourselves -- all have faults. And here on C-D, we don't tend to nail people to the wall because we may suspect they are lying but we can't prove it. And, regardless, C-D is not the place to do that. While 'talking about it' is 'healthy', this is not the therapeutic experience. None of us are therapists. Well, maybe some are but they're not going to practice through C-D.
So the bottom line for me is: I have never known any Black in my whole life who has never experienced prejudice, in SD or anyplace else in the world. Whether it's subtle or blatant, it's almost always present. Blacks will tell you they have and do experience prejudice. I have witnessed it all my life, first in school and then in the workplace. (And with my own parents and my ex's parents who went through the roof when my young adult children were dating Black young men and women.) And you simply can't dismiss C-D Blacks' experiences and/or ask them to defend themselves simply because it doesn't fall the realm of your experience. (Good gawd, ER, how could it not? Where have you been all your life?)
ER, you know I like you (altho' sometimes I don't know why ), so I'm not going for your jugular. Truly. But you often do come off on the offensive and put people on the defensive (it seems to me). Because you aren't aware of something and/or because you don't think it's true and/or because no one you know -- or have EVER known -- has experienced something -- well, then, of course it can't be true. So then you want the other poster to explain in detail who/what/where/why this situation/these situations happened -- and even THEN you don't believe it, because it isn't within the realm of your experience. You will not grant people the validity of their experiences simply because they state them.
And, of course, if it isn't true for you it can't be true for anyone else, because, as you remind us all frequently (altho' you may think it's subtle, I don't think so at all) -- you have money, you own businesses, you've lived in Europe, you've traveled all over the world and all over The US. But if what you say is true -- and I've never asked you to prove it -- you also live in a very upscale gated community in SD (how many Blacks live there, I wonder). And your life experiences are very different than the vast majority of the rest of us. To say the least.
After any of us have been on C-D for a while, we begin to suspect that not everyone is telling the truth. Some people lie. Some people exaggerate. If, as I've learned from my research about C-D is true and C-D really is a sliver representation of the (mostly) US population, then we can pretty much assume that some people do lie and exaggerate because that is what happens everyday 'in real life'. Outside of C-D we all know people who lie and/or exaggerate. Some of them are not our friends and are never going to be, and some are our friends and we love them anyway, because we know that they -- and we ourselves -- all have faults. And here on C-D, we don't tend to nail people to the wall because we may suspect they are lying but we can't prove it. And, regardless, C-D is not the place to do that. While 'talking about it' is 'healthy', this is not the therapeutic experience. None of us are therapists. Well, maybe some are but they're not going to practice through C-D.
So the bottom line for me is: I have never known any Black in my whole life who has never experienced prejudice, in SD or anyplace else in the world. Whether it's subtle or blatant, it's almost always present. Blacks will tell you they have and do experience prejudice. I have witnessed it all my life, first in school and then in the workplace. (And with my own parents and my ex's parents who went through the roof when my young adult children were dating Black young men and women.) And you simply can't dismiss C-D Blacks' experiences and/or ask them to defend themselves simply because it doesn't fall the realm of your experience. (Good gawd, ER, how could it not? Where have you been all your life?)
Fran,
You are WAY off base here. I never stated the OP's case wasn't real or valid so you are totally wrong. I never said it wasn't true for me or anyone else. I never said anyone wasn't telling the truth. I was asking more details about their experience which is far from the same thing what you are implying.
I was very polite with the OP. Where I live or some of the things you mentioned have no bearing on this conversation at all.
Last edited by earlyretirement; 06-17-2013 at 08:42 AM..
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Yep. Exactly sdurbanite. This is exactly the trend I'm seeing. And that article is spot on target about Asians being the fastest growing race in 2012. I'm also seeing that trend around here as well. In her new school here (also in PUSD) more and more of the kids are Asian or multi-cultural with at least one of the parents being of Asian heritage. 
), so I'm not going for your jugular. Truly. But you often do come off on the offensive and put people on the defensive (it seems to me). Because you aren't aware of something and/or because you don't think it's true and/or because no one you know -- or have EVER known -- has experienced something -- well, then, of course it can't be true. So then you want the other poster to explain in detail who/what/where/why this situation/these situations happened -- and even THEN you don't believe it, because it isn't within the realm of your experience. You will not grant people the validity of their experiences simply because they state them.
