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Old 04-20-2017, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
2,430 posts, read 1,404,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Roger Penrose demolished hard AI many yrs ago. [...]
Its like this, suppose we fast fwd 20 yrs and quantum computing is fully operational, you can simulate intelligence but the machine still isn't conscious and we still don't have an answer to "what is consciousness".
I agree with Penrose about the non-computable nature of subjective/qualitative experience, but I don't think that the singularity depends on computers being actually conscious. Super-fast, powerful computers should be sufficient - although genuinely conscious computers would certainly make things interesting. In any case, I don't yet see the mystery of consciousness as a necessary roadblock to the singularity. Now if you are suggesting that computers won't even be able to simulate human intelligence, then that would be a roadblock, but I do not yet see any reason to think we will smack into that particular roadblock.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:45 PM
 
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Great post Jonesg, but I also don't think of the singularity as being when AI reaches consciousness. That's prob'ly the problem with 'the singularity', it means different things to different people.

But I do agree with you that no matter how fast a calculator becomes it'll always be a calculator. Where would the leap to self awareness come from?
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:59 AM
 
134 posts, read 72,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
...snip...

Increasing the speed and complexity of computing will not cut it, it will always be incomplete.
So it leaves the door open for quantum computing but how do you design something that is an enigma.
If consciousness was easy to understand, we would be too simple to understand the explanation.
And how do you emulate what cannot be fundamentally grasped.

...snip...
There is a theory that consciousness comes by itself when calculations reaches a high enough complexity. But no one knows of course, it's one of the last complete mysteries.

And as the others already said, consciousness itself isn't IMO needed for a technological singularity.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Boston
1,619 posts, read 380,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmond View Post
There is a theory that consciousness comes by itself when calculations reaches a high enough complexity. But no one knows of course, it's one of the last complete mysteries.

And as the others already said, consciousness itself isn't IMO needed for a technological singularity.
One of the things I see in peoples attraction to the singularity is the ability to download mind into a computer. Perhaps as their way of escaping their fear of mortality.
How do you download what you don't understand ?

I just watched a video by Hammerhof, he described a brain experiment where they designed a worm brain (because its a lot simpler than designing a human one) and expected it to act like a worm, it did nothing.
All they had was simulated neurons and synapses, switches.

Hamerhof explained why they failed, they didn't account for the immense underlying complexity in the neurons themselves.

THere is also much to suggest consciousness is primary not emergent. That would be very odd but I'll follow the evidence, interesting stuff.
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Old 04-21-2017, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Boston
1,619 posts, read 380,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dport7674 View Post
Where would the leap to self awareness come from?
Penrose said it occurs at the gap between the quantum realm and the classical realm we know as reality.
Each collapse of the wave function is a moment of consciousness. Whilst this occurs everywhere in the universe most of it just dissipates because its not orchestrated. Hence his Orch OR idea.
Orchestrated Objective Reduction.

Which begs the question , do we evolve to create our consciousness or did consciousness direct our development to best tune in to what already exists "out there".

The sub particle structure of neurons, micro tubules will "self arrange" if placed in petri dishes, self arrange ?
As Einstein quipped "something is moving".
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Old 04-22-2017, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,794 posts, read 18,460,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
One of the things I see in peoples attraction to the singularity is the ability to download mind into a computer. Perhaps as their way of escaping their fear of mortality.
How do you download what you don't understand ?

I just watched a video by Hammerhof, he described a brain experiment where they designed a worm brain (because its a lot simpler than designing a human one) and expected it to act like a worm, it did nothing.
All they had was simulated neurons and synapses, switches.

Hamerhof explained why they failed, they didn't account for the immense underlying complexity in the neurons themselves.

THere is also much to suggest consciousness is primary not emergent. That would be very odd but I'll follow the evidence, interesting stuff.
While do we not understand how consciousness works now that should changes once we reverse engineer the brain.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,794 posts, read 18,460,013 times
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This is a important step to becoming transhuman and is actually much ahead of what I thought it would be. Meaning at fitst I heard in the 2030's then it was by 2030 not it looks to be around 2020. WOW just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Elon Musk's new company wants to link human brains with computers in 4 years

Tesla founder and chief executive Elon Musk said his latest company Neuralink is working to link the human brain with computers by creating micron-sized devices.

The link: Elon Musk's Neuralink aims to link human brains with computers in 4 years - Business Insider
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:26 AM
 
2,756 posts, read 6,005,263 times
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Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
As far fetched as your theory sounds, it actually is a legitimate theory to well known physicists.

You can read of the reasonings here or even the opposing views.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...er-simulation/
I read the Article. Good stuff! I have been predicting that in the future people will transform from biological beings to a more advanced robot-like form. This would lend support to the simulation existence that we might live in now. Our robot-like (for lack of a better word) descendants create this simulation to learn how they evolved, much like we create experiments and simulations to learn how something works. This is one possibility anyway.

I hope, though, that we live in real universe. It's much more exciting that way.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
11,794 posts, read 18,460,013 times
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There is a good documentary series on NATGEO about the coming singularity called Year Million. Now they have a time table that is more conservative but everything they talk about will happen and what I argue and people like Ray Kurzweil in the next 10 to 30 years.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAbh61Rvcuw
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:42 PM
 
1,637 posts, read 673,123 times
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Default book, copyright 2017

Heart Of The Machine Our Future In A World Of Artificial Emotional Intelligence by Richard Yonck

The author argues that it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to create an AI that thinks exactly like a human mind. You are switching from a biological brain to a different substrate. If it is possible, it may be a long way off.

In the meantime, we may see AIs that have a form of intelligence, but an intelligence that is alien to humans. We must not assume that we will easily create AIs that have values and goals that align with ours. And these AIs might be dangerous without even approaching a Singularity level.
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