Y'all or You guys? (Dallas, Pittsburg: loans, college, education)

[billybones]

Y'all Wikipedia

[scubashawn68]

Originally Posted by theSUBlime

Actually, "y'all" has migrated from Southern areas into places that did not already have regionalisms in place, though it is a traditonally Southern expression.

Can we agree that it is a Southern expression and not proper English ?

Ps....I lived in the South for a little while and most of the Southerns there that I met do not even consider Texas the South.

Are regional words or terms taught in school ? No would be the answer to that.

[Bo]

I didn't grow up in Texas, but I favor "you folks" over either of the options in the poll.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

Can we agree that it is a Southern expression and not proper English ?

Ps....I lived in the South for a little while and most of the Southerns there that I met do not even consider Texas the South.

Are regional words or terms taught in school ? No would be the answer to that.

This is getting a bit silly. The question of whether or not Texas is part of "The South" is immaterial to the larger point. I happen to think it is, and many Texans agree. Other fellow Texans have different opinions. I also know some in the Deep South who confine the definition of "The South" to 3 states..or four at most!

We Texans hash this one out and have just agreed to disagree. But I don't know many Texans -- on the Southern or Western side of the fence -- who would not take umbrage over this statement of yours:

Can we agree that it is a Southern expression and not proper English ?

No, we can't agree on that. And you have given nothing more than your own supercilious opinion as to why it SHOULD be any different. This is one of those posts that make me both want to horse laugh and barf at the same time. It is indicitive of a disdain for Texas and the rest of the South so deeply entrenched in certain areas of the NE and West Coast, that it is taken for granted the rest of creation accepts it.

Now, once again, PLEASE cite the grammatical rule to back up what you say! Dad gum and high cotton, can you answer that simple question!

Are regional words or terms taught in school ? No would be the answer to that.

If we bleached the English language of its diversity in terms of colorful accents and idioms and slang, then what a boring country this would be. The intent of English classes are to teach basic rules of grammar and coherent punctuation, not control the words.

I confess I don't understand your position, and that is putting it politely. By your logic, most of the classic novels of history would be gone with the wind (pun intended)...

[scubashawn68]

I guess you missed my point. I have never stated that it is wrong for anyone to speak this way. All I had stated was that it is not proper English.
Just like the Spanish that is spoken in other Spanish speaking countries outside of Spain is not proper Spanish either.
I absolutely have no disdain for Texas or anywhere in the South. In fact I have become quite fond of some area's of the South and some of the people that I have met from there.

[lonestar2007]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

First, let me say I am not trying to be rude with my answer or opinion. After all this is just my opinion.
I live in the English speaking country of the USA so I do not us the term"Y'all".
I speak proper English like I was taught at home and at school.Most educated people speak proper English. And yes...I am not from the south or the north. I am from California originally.

I've got to step in on this one and express my opinion and only hope it's not taken the wrong way. For starters, I am always curious as to exactly what people mean when they refer to the word educated. Are they speaking of book learning or maybe they're referring to the education you get from the self taught swim or drown pool of learning or wisdom from others? I daresay most of the people on this forum (by judging from their posts) have what is consider higher education, i.e. college.

I was also brought up in the English speaking country of the USA (Texas), with a 'proper' education' along with a 'proper' upbringing, taught 'proper' manners, taught the 'proper' way to speak, taught 'proper respect for my elders and respect for people of different cultures and upbringings who might talk and act just a little bit funny simply because it was foreign to us, not what we were accustomed to. Nevertheless, we didn't consider it 'improper' of them just because they were a little different in their speech and their manners. I don't quite understand how you managed to associate a regional term with what is or is not 'proper' in the English language. As Reb said, while it is a regional term, it is also a contraction, so it is as 'proper' to insert into a sentence as the words isn't, won't, can't, etc. Surely even a 'proper' speaking person such as yourself uses contactions at times. Actually, (please bear in mind, I am just assuming), I think the issue you have with regional terms has more to do with being a 'stuffed shirt' than it has to do with if it is 'proper' English or slang.

As to the fact that regional terms are not taught in schools, don't you think that's somewhat redunant in itself? Lighten up, toss around a few of the regional terms or sayings in your neck of the woods, you might find it's a good way to fit in with the locals and have some fun. By the way, my cousin is a doctor in far West Texas who owns his own helicopter and flies to several hospitals, has more education (book learning, that is) than anyone I know. His parents had more money than God and he just couldn't make up his mind up he wanted to be when he 'grew up' so he just stayed in college for so many years we all lost track, it was like he became a 'professional student'. He says, "y'all want to go grab a beer"? just like the rest of us, so I'm still in the dark about how the 'educated' people speak according to you.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

I guess you missed my point. I have never stated that it is wrong for anyone to speak this way. All I had stated was that it is not proper English.
Just like the Spanish that is spoken in other Spanish speaking countries outside of Spain is not proper Spanish either.
I absolutely have no disdain for Texas or anywhere in the South. In fact I have become quite fond of some area's of the South and some of the people that I have met from there.

No, I didn't miss your point. Your original point was that "y'all" was improper English. You never explained nor provided any empircal support for exactly why you think so. And that point was my counter-point!

So until you can do that, your analogy as concerns Spain as to the language simply doesn't apply!

With that said though, I appreciate that you appreciate Texas! You have good reason for doing so. We talk and and tell stories and all with a flair for the true nuances and feel of the English language that makes us the most sensual and proper and down-right best for front porch conversation!

[scubashawn68]

Originally Posted by lonestar2007

I've got to step in on this one and express my opinion and only hope it's not taken the wrong way. For starters, I am always curious as to exactly what people mean when they refer to the word educated. Are they speaking of book learning or maybe they're referring to the education you get from the self taught swim or drown pool of learning or wisdom from others? I daresay most of the people on this forum (by judging from their posts) have what is consider higher education, i.e. college.

I was also brought up in the English speaking country of the USA (Texas), with a 'proper' education' along with a 'proper' upbringing, taught 'proper' manners, taught the 'proper' way to speak, taught 'proper respect for my elders and respect for people of different cultures and upbringings who might talk and act just a little bit funny simply because it was foreign to us, not what we were accustomed to. Nevertheless, we didn't consider it 'improper' of them just because they were a little different in their speech and their manners. I don't quite understand how you managed to associate a regional term with what is or is not 'proper' in the English language. As Reb said, while it is a regional term, it is also a contraction, so it is as 'proper' to insert into a sentence as the words isn't, won't, can't, etc. Surely even a 'proper' speaking person such as yourself uses contactions at times. Actually, (please bear in mind, I am just assuming), I think the issue you have with regional terms has more to do with being a 'stuffed shirt' than it has to do with if it is 'proper' English or slang.

As to the fact that regional terms are not taught in schools, don't you think that's somewhat redunant in itself? Lighten up, toss around a few of the regional terms or sayings in your neck of the woods, you might find it's a good way to fit in with the locals and have some fun. By the way, my cousin is a doctor in far West Texas who owns his own helicopter and flies to several hospitals, has more education (book learning, that is) than anyone I know. His parents had more money than God and he just couldn't make up his mind up he wanted to be when he 'grew up' so he just stayed in college for so many years we all lost track, it was like he became a 'professional student'. He says, "y'all want to go grab a beer"? just like the rest of us, so I'm still in the dark about how the 'educated' people speak according to you.

I have to say you really amused me with your statements. I understand the Y'all is a contraction of You all. However it is still not proper English.
Again....I do not have a problem with anyone speaking this way. All I meant was that it is not proper English. Which is the truth.
Stuffed shirt ? I am hardly that. I do not need to toss around a few of those terms to "fit in". That would make me a very fake person.
By the way, just because a person spent some time going to classes does not mean they actually apply anything that they may have learned.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by scubashawn68

I have to say you really amused me with your statements. I understand the Y'all is a contraction of You all. However it is still not proper English.
Again....I do not have a problem with anyone speaking this way. All I meant was that it is not proper English. Which is the truth.
Stuffed shirt ? I am hardly that. I do not need to toss around a few of those terms to "fit in". That would make me a very fake person.

LOL How 'bout this? WE think "y'all" is perfectly proper and lyrically lovely and reminds us of comfort and family and home. You don't.

But you still never provide the support as to why it is NOT proper English!
If you could just do that, then maybe the debate (and your position) would have a certain merit. Or even be worthwhile to debate/argue about.

As it is, lets just put it this way, ok?

We in Texas/South love it and use and embrace it in the same way we do black-eyed peas on New Years Day and fried okra in between. It is lyrically lovely, and rolls off the tongue easy. Natural as honey glaze on a pecan pie.

Hey, how y'all doing?
What's going on, y'all? Come on in...
Be careful, y'all...drive safe

Ah, well, do us all a favor and send your critique from afar! (BTW -- that is NOT "from a fire"...but from a distance...like yonder is! Hee Hee)

By the way, just because a person spent some time going to classes does not mean they actually apply anything that they may have learned.

So in addition to being the grand judge of proper English, you now can question the credentials of others in terms of education, if the said does not square with your own opinions...?

I gotta go fry some catfish and okra tonight! Got some company coming over, so you might get in the last word (another unintended pun!). In closing though, our disagreement is nothing personal and I hope you agree. So have yerself a fine one and don't y'all out in California forget that cornbread AIN'T got no sugar in it!

[scubashawn68]

Thought you-all might think this was amusing.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/English