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Old 04-02-2014, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,328,925 times
Reputation: 3562

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
They don't prohibit it, we just don't force people to use it. Adjusting lights to harm the flow of cars seems to cross the line to us. We might tolerate it if the light is adjusted for other reason like not enough time for people/Children to cross but otherwise not.
My point was that in the US, the priority is cars in most places. Because of that, lights would not be timed to hurt the flow of traffic. In contrast, transit has been starved of funding for decades, driving infrastructure has been promoted and funded at a MUCH higher rate, and zoning has been set to push low density development with little consideration for transit (also favorable to cars). I'd say that crosses the line for the pro-transit crowd...wouldn't you?

Saying that he US "just doesn't force people to use it" is true, but severely lacking in perspective and context IMO. Imagine decreasing the amount of roads in the US by 75% (a handful of metros having better roads than most), swapping high quality autos out for old clunkers, and then making parking available 2 miles from your house (no driveways) and one mile from your work. You wouldn't be prohibiting driving, you just wouldn't be forcing people to use it, right?
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:47 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
My point was that in the US, the priority is cars in most places. Because of that, lights would not be timed to hurt the flow of traffic. In contrast, transit has been starved of funding for decades, driving infrastructure has been promoted and funded at a MUCH higher rate, and zoning has been set to push low density development with little consideration for transit (also favorable to cars). I'd say that crosses the line for the pro-transit crowd...wouldn't you?

Saying that he US "just doesn't force people to use it" is true, but severely lacking in perspective and context IMO. Imagine decreasing the amount of roads in the US by 75% (a handful of metros having better roads than most), swapping high quality autos out for old clunkers, and then making parking available 2 miles from your house (no driveways) and one mile from your work. You wouldn't be prohibiting driving, you just wouldn't be forcing people to use it, right?
In the US both private and public forces promote car use and for good reason. It really shouldn't take 1 hour to move 13 miles in this day and age. We have roads that cars, busses and trucks can use. There is enough parking via on the street parking and garages on private parking when people own houses and given an choice people prefer not to be piled on top of each other. If you want to live car free live in an major city.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:04 PM
 
326 posts, read 410,650 times
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i did for ten years in LA. and do often enough in south cackalacki, but it's pretty inefficient. and now that i have a daughter, it's totally inconvenient in terms of getting her to school on time. or in terms of getting any of us anywhere dry and not heat stroked.

but i love having drinks out and not driving home. or reading the paper on the bus or metro. i hardly read the paper anymore--i used to have time when i didn't drive basically every day!
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,328,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
In the US both private and public forces promote car use and for good reason. It really shouldn't take 1 hour to move 13 miles in this day and age. We have roads that cars, busses and trucks can use. There is enough parking via on the street parking and garages on private parking when people own houses and given an choice people prefer not to be piled on top of each other.
It has nothing to do with what I or you want. The fact is that the US highly favors the automobile. You can't enjoy that fact as a car-lover AND act like transit and cars get equal treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
If you want to live car free live in an major city.
Perhaps in the coming 30 years, I'll get to say "live in the suburbs if you want an autocentric life" as it becomes more difficult to do so.

Last edited by AJNEOA; 04-02-2014 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:07 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,819,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
You can't live without a car in Northern New Jersey because the transit system, especially rail transit, is very poor. The region is basically built around the car, even though the area would be dense enough to handle transit.
NNJ was built around trains and streetcars; the streetcars are gone, but buses still run the same routes.

Quote:
Portland is a little over 4000psm and they handle transit in the city just fine, so it is possible with good planning and an adequate transit system.
85% of households in Portland have at least one car.

Quote:
Why isn't there a train station closer than 3 miles to you?
Because it turns out that gridding train lines to a < 3 mile grid is not feasible given the population.

Quote:
Is the grocery store 2 miles or 1.1 miles?
2 miles. It's 1.1 miles to the nearest bus stop which has a route leading to the grocery store.

Quote:
Why isn't there a grocery store closer?
Because the population wouldn't support a grocery store every mile.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:30 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Those are just fountains in the middle of the road. Not really a model one would want to repeat. Pioneer Courthouse Square in Portland is much more of a town square than these fountains.
You obviously just looked at those two pages of pictures very superficially. I especially liked the ones from "Occupy Chambersburg", what a funny thought. There are a lot of little shops and stuff around the square. Plus, keep in mind that these towns are quite small. Bloomsburg is 12,767 in a county of 66,887 (Columbia). That is not much bigger than it was when my parents lived there in 1967. Chambersburg, a historic Civil War town that was burned by the Confederates on their way to Gettysburg, has a population of 18,546, in a county (Franklin) of 149,618. Also keep in mind that they are far more exemplary of what a "town square" really is, being very old places.

http://www.downtownchambersburgpa.co...99450683593750

Last edited by nei; 04-02-2014 at 06:35 PM.. Reason: unnecessary
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:41 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
It has nothing to do with what I or you want. The fact is that the US highly favors the automobile. You can't enjoy that fact as a car-lover AND act like transit and cars get equal treatment.



Perhaps in the coming 30 years, I'll get to say "live in the suburbs if you want an autocentric life" as it becomes more difficult to do so.

Honestly transit is more costly than the car. The car just needs a road, the car itself is paid for privately. The bus system needs roads and drivers and buses all of which come out of public funds. Likewise rail.
The car is faster and more flexible than public transit in most situations.

An company that has parking or has parking nearby(even downtown Chicago has parking within walking distance of offices) can set it's hours however it pleases. An company dependent on transit is crippled to only being able to work when transit is available. So private forces favor the car. An store with parking can attract customers much from much further away than one that lacks it.

Public forces favor the car to some degree but realize that public transit has some use. I hate to say this but the moment the model T rolled off the assembly line the street car was doomed. The same roads that once held street cars and horses could accommodate the car and unlike the street car the car runs non stop to it's destination.

In Europe they had lots of older cities built before public transit and so transforming them to something the car can use was difficult. The streets of cities like Chicago were built wide enough to accommodate both horses and carts as well as have an street car run down the center. They were built grid like from the start and so on. Where as older cities are often less grid like, often narrower streets(Boston) and so on. Some places like New York and San Francisco public transit can dominate due to choke holds like bridges other places less so.

Last edited by chirack; 04-02-2014 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:49 PM
 
1,458 posts, read 2,224,056 times
Reputation: 3108
I live in Philadelphia, in an outlying neighborhood (the far Northeast.) I take regional rail/commuter rail to my job in center city.

If that commuter rail wasn't a 5 minute drive from my hour, I wouldn't use it. I'd drive. The alternative to real rail or driving- "transit" in the form of the El - is quite unpleasant. Beggars walk from car to car. Nasty teenagers screech and mean mug, and yes I've seen out and out attacks. People have gotten beaten to death on Philly subway platforms. The jam of people is just unacceptable. I come off of the El distraught, disgusted and ready to move back to Texas. People tell me they've ridden it for years without problems. SO WHAT? Why on earth would I punish myself for an hour a day?

I don't think the issue of perceived safety is getting enough attention here.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:56 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,857,480 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirette View Post
I live in Philadelphia, in an outlying neighborhood (the far Northeast.) I take regional rail/commuter rail to my job in center city.

If that commuter rail wasn't a 5 minute drive from my hour, I wouldn't use it. I'd drive. The alternative to real rail or driving- "transit" in the form of the El - is quite unpleasant. Beggars walk from car to car. Nasty teenagers screech and mean mug, and yes I've seen out and out attacks. People have gotten beaten to death on Philly subway platforms. The jam of people is just unacceptable. I come off of the El distraught, disgusted and ready to move back to Texas. People tell me they've ridden it for years without problems. SO WHAT? Why on earth would I punish myself for an hour a day?

I don't think the issue of perceived safety is getting enough attention here.
Yeap. Public transit is mostly safe, but anyone who has ridden it long enough likely has had a few scares. Plus issues like waiting in dangerous neighborhoods or walking at night by oneself don't help.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:15 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
An company that has parking or has parking nearby(even downtown Chicago has parking within walking distance of offices) can set it's hours however it pleases. An company dependent on transit is crippled to only being able to work when transit is available. So private forces favor the car. An store with parking can attract customers much from much further away than one that lacks it.
Unless this office is really off hours, wouldn't still be mass transit accessible. Chicago transit still runs off peak and in the evenings.
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