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Old 08-01-2014, 03:00 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,074,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
2003 is still 11 years ago. A good prinicple of real estate is that if you hang on to it long enough, you'll at least get back what you paid for it.
Wow. There's a generalization if I ever heard one. I wonder if the 1950's owners of 2-bedroom bungalows in the inner city followed this "good princple"? Or did a little thing called "white flight" screw them over? What about those who purchased McMansions in Florida or Las Vegas in 2007? It may be 11 years since 2003, but there was a housing bubble somewhere in there, if you recall. Or perhaps you don't recall.

Your princple may hold true 90% of the time. But if you think I'm going to just sit back, ignore all evidence to the contrary, and assume that I (or my parents) won't fall into the other 10%, then you must think even less of me than I guessed.

 
Old 08-01-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,073 posts, read 102,800,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
Wow. There's a generalization if I ever heard one. I wonder if the 1950's owners of 2-bedroom bungalows in the inner city followed this "good princple"? Or did a little thing called "white flight" screw them over? What about those who purchased McMansions in Florida or Las Vegas in 2007? It may be 11 years since 2003, but there was a housing bubble somewhere in there, if you recall. Or perhaps you don't recall.

Your princple may hold true 90% of the time. But if you think I'm going to just sit back, ignore all evidence to the contrary, and assume that I (or my parents) won't fall into the other 10%, then you must think even less of me than I guessed.
I have half a notion to report you for rudeness.

Oh, "white flight". Yes, people fleeing like they do in those zombie movies. Shades of "The Night of the Living Dead".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063350/

I think my principle holds true about 99% of the time. Maybe you need to read this:
Buying a House - Money Essentials, Lesson 8

Or not. The sky is falling!

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 08-01-2014 at 04:03 PM..
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:10 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,074,670 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I have half a notion to report you for rudeness.

Oh, "white flight". Yes, people fleeing like they do in those zombie movies. Shades of "The Night of the Living Dead".
Night of the Living Dead (1968) - IMDb

I think my principle holds true about 99% of the time. Maybe you need to read this:
Buying a House - Money Essentials, Lesson 8

Or not. The sky is falling!
Sure. Feel free to report me for rudeness.

But I have to ask: Did you provide the wrong links in your comment? Because the first one suggests that white flight was some horror movie joke that didn't actually destroy many lives, as well as the value of many homes, and the second one, while offering lots of good advice to home buyers, said absolutely nothing about it being a 99% slam dunk for breaking even or better.

Last edited by rwiksell; 08-01-2014 at 09:21 PM..
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,073 posts, read 102,800,958 times
Reputation: 33137
When I hear the term "white flight" I think about people fleeing zombies. Just can't help it. I like that movie b/c it was filmed in and around Pittsburgh, my home town. A local TV guy had a minor role. I think white flight is a huge exaggeration.

The link about homebuying was meant to be general information. What alternative do you suggest for your parents once they take your advice and sell their house? People do have to live somewhere.
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,356 posts, read 7,538,878 times
Reputation: 15966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Last week a 92 year old lady went northbound on the southbound lanes of the interstate near here and caused a head on collision that took her life and the life of the other driver. I knew her and was surprised that she made that mistake. She drove that route at least once a week and did not seem to have problems. How do you know when someone should not be driving?
It happens far more often than most of us realize, and more often than not, the elderly driver is the only victim.

But for too many of us, the loss of the ability to drive oneself is possibly the single most painful step in the Long Ride Downhill, with frightening emotional and psychological consequences It went that way for a schoolteacher bachelor uncle who was very much a "third parent" to me. Toward the end, we had to argue him out of several trips beyond the town on late afternoons when he could no longer readily factor in the point that the sun was setting much earlier.

When he blundered into one last fender-bender, an investigating police officer was astute enough to relieve him of his license on the spot; that sent him into a tailspin that broke his spirit and put him into a retirement home a few months later, in which he lated less than three months. Yet I sometimes wonder if he developments of the last few years (scooters, etc.) might have allowed him a little more time and made him less of a problem for the community.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 08-01-2014 at 10:30 PM..
 
Old 08-01-2014, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,356 posts, read 7,538,878 times
Reputation: 15966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
Where on earth did you two get that idea? Certainly not from the 2013 U.S. Census. Pittsburgh is less white than the nation as a whole and less white than Pennsylvania as a state (81.9%)

Percent of whites in the U.S. population: 77% In Pittsburgh: 66%
Percent of people identifying as black or African-American in the US: 13.2% In Pittsburgh: 26.1%
Percent of Asians in the U.S.: 5.3% In Pittsburgh: 4.4%.
Percent of Latinos/Hispanics in the U.S.: 17% In Pittsburgh: 3%
Percent of people identifying as bi-racial in the U.S.: 2.4% In Pittsburgh: 2.5%

So other than Pittsburgh needing to import some Latinos to measure up, the city is more diversified than the nation as a whole. How can you say that a city that is more than one-quarter black is "one of the whitest cities in the country"? I lived in the 'burgh for many decades and while I never saw it as a model of racial harmony, I certainly don't think it lacks diversity compared to many other places.

Also, what does whiteness have to do with boomers getting too old to drive?
Pittsburgh is somewhat of an anomaly, because the steel industry was often spread amng closer-knit communities outside the city limits, and because its downtown area wasn't as centered as much around offices until fairly recently; it never developed as much of the "commuter culture" as most cities of its size and status. Even in the Thirties and Forties, its "suburban" rail network was geared to "day shopping trips" into town, rather than to and from work.

It might also be noted that Western Pennsylvania counties such as Beaver (Beaver Falls), Fayette (Uniontown), and Westmoreland (Greensburg) had small communities with a substantial minority population.

The current population of Pittsburgh stands at a little over 300,000, less than half of what it was at its height in 1930 -- at which time it barely made the list of the nation's ten largest cities. By 2013, its estimated rank had dropped to No. 62.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 08-01-2014 at 10:31 PM..
 
Old 08-02-2014, 01:14 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,074,670 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
When I hear the term "white flight" I think about people fleeing zombies. Just can't help it. I like that movie b/c it was filmed in and around Pittsburgh, my home town. A local TV guy had a minor role. I think white flight is a huge exaggeration.

The link about homebuying was meant to be general information. What alternative do you suggest for your parents once they take your advice and sell their house? People do have to live somewhere.
It's unfortunate that such a serious historical reality* in our nation is equated in your mind with a silly horror trope.

And contrary to the opinions of some, I'm not trying to run my parents' life. So I won't try to tell them where to live. But I don't understand what's implied by your question. Obviously everyone has to (or ought to) live somewhere, even if it's an RV or something. If you're asking an honest question about what types of housing choices are wise for retirees or near-retirees, then I will share.

Mostly I think it depends on their health at the time**, and how much effort they want to put into cleaning and maintaining their property. So the best options, in my mind, would range from semi-independent assisted living (non-ownership) to buying a modest, well-constructed 3 bedroom home in good condition in an established urban (or suburban!) neighborhood. There are TONS of these in their current hometown of Kansas City, and many of them are leafy, charming, and safe. Also they're mostly less than 10 miles from their current suburban home, keeping them in range of their friends and the places they currently like to go. And since they're downgrading, it's not likely that they'll need a loan at all. So while the article you provided was a good one, it's not particularly helpful to their situation, or the topic at hand.

*For some facts about devastating realities of White Flight: White flight: Property values, neighborhood quality most often cited

**Although for some reason everyone wants to assume that my parents are in peak health, my mom recently underwent aggressive treatment for ovarian cancer, and my dad had a chest-pain scare. They're doing pretty well now, but definitely aging, and encountering some of the challenges thereof.

Last edited by nei; 08-04-2014 at 09:47 AM.. Reason: rude
 
Old 08-02-2014, 01:25 PM
 
1,709 posts, read 1,680,564 times
Reputation: 1843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
When I hear the term "white flight" I think about people fleeing zombies. Just can't help it. I like that movie b/c it was filmed in and around Pittsburgh, my home town. A local TV guy had a minor role. I think white flight is a huge exaggeration.
Could this be why you think white flight is "a huge exaggeration?" I think it's been discusse on this forum before that Pittsburgh suffered from white flight far less than a lot of its rust belt counterparts. It had a smaller black population than a lot of industrial cities and there were this less of them to scare racists from the city. I bet if you had lived in Detroit, white flight would not be considered "a huge exaggeration." Not a jab, but a consideration on where you have lived and how it shaped your worldview.
 
Old 08-02-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,073 posts, read 102,800,958 times
Reputation: 33137
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
Could this be why you think white flight is "a huge exaggeration?" I think it's been discusse on this forum before that Pittsburgh suffered from white flight far less than a lot of its rust belt counterparts. It had a smaller black population than a lot of industrial cities and there were this less of them to scare racists from the city. I bet if you had lived in Detroit, white flight would not be considered "a huge exaggeration." Not a jab, but a consideration on where you have lived and how it shaped your worldview.
Doubt it. I'm not living in a bubble somewhere. I grew up there, and that's where I lived in the 50s and 60s, when "white flight" was supposedly happening, but as Jukesgrrl so emphatically informed us, Pittsburgh is, when all is said and done, 26% African-American, and as 2nd trick op told us Beaver Falls, my actual hometown, has a sizeable minority (AA mostly) population as well. Plus, I now live in metro Denver and have for the last 30+ years. Denver went through its own school integration crisis, including the passage of the Poundstone Amendment to the Colorado constitution (before I came here) which effectively prevented Denver from annexing any more land and therefore from busing suburban students for the purpose of racial integration.

I read rwiksell's link, it has nothing in it about history. It's a research project about what people would do in the event of various levels of racial integration of their neighborhoods. Everyone who has ever worked with people knows that what people say they "might" do and what they actually do are often two very different things.
 
Old 08-02-2014, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,432 posts, read 59,986,890 times
Reputation: 54097
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Why has the boomer generation always resented the "greatest generation"? Anytime someone says something positive about them, boomers chime in about their flaws or shortcomings.
I haven't seen any of that in this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
In ten years the roads will be packed full of elderly boomers who cant see, forget where they are and mix up the gas and break peddles.
Ah. Perhaps. But we'll be still able to choose the correct homonyms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
You call the re-urbanization of Millenials a "trendy trend" but let's not forget that SUBurbanization is a trend itself, and one that is much less rooted in history.
Suburbanization has been around since the Revolution. Any "trend" that holds up for 230-some years is probably a sure thing.

Quote:
Even if they don't reject these houses entirely, but just aren't as crazy about them as their grandparents, we're talking about an economic setback to the tune of hundreds-of-billions of dollars.
Perhaps some of what you're saying hinges on the sturdiness of the housing built from 1980 on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttaTheLouBurbs View Post
I think it's been discusse on this forum before that Pittsburgh suffered from white flight far less than a lot of its rust belt counterparts. It had a smaller black population than a lot of industrial cities and there were this less of them to scare racists from the city.
Whether or not they were fleeing because of race or for some other reason, folks of my parents' generation did indeed leave the city for the suburbs in the 1950s and 60s. Gram and Gramps and all the great aunts and uncles stayed in Pittsburgh, but every single one of their progeny left for larger yards in the surrounding suburbs.
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