utah & alcohol...

[john2timex]

Ah, but if the church seeks to have influence in the political arena it should lose its tax exempt status and religious designation. I agree that the church has influence but that it should be constrained to the members of that church not legislated to the whole. The church has every right to endorse political personalities and tell its members how it feels that members should vote. But within the walls of the chapel. I don't even have a problem with the legeslature seeking the input of religious leaders as long as they seek the input from more than one church. But to have mormon PAC's having a captive audience with the legislature as a standard practice goes beyound the bounds of what I believe the courts concider a healthy seperation of church and state.

[Aerorick]

Bravo Timex! The strained arguements, in my opinion, by Sarg and Coolcats sound like a guy who builds a solid metal shield over his house to protect against meteors. You can't really say he's wrong. But does it really make any sense.

[coolcats]

I never stated my opinion either way on what the alcohol laws should be. Only that the people clamoring for a change need to realize they aren’t automatically entitled to the change they desire.

[SergeantL]

Originally Posted by john2timex

Ah, but if the church seeks to have influence in the political arena it should lose its tax exempt status and religious designation. I agree that the church has influence but that it should be constrained to the members of that church not legislated to the whole. The church has every right to endorse political personalities and tell its members how it feels that members should vote. But within the walls of the chapel. I don't even have a problem with the legeslature seeking the input of religious leaders as long as they seek the input from more than one church. But to have mormon PAC's having a captive audience with the legislature as a standard practice goes beyound the bounds of what I believe the courts concider a healthy seperation of church and state.

Actually, John, endorsing or recommending—even “within the walls of the chapel”—is cause for loosing 501c status. The Church does not endorse or recommend any candidate or initiative to the membership. In fact, the Church distributes a boilerplate letter to units before major elections reminding everyone that Church facilities are NOT the place for political statements, endorsements, or recommendations.

What I believe you do not understand is the tendency of LDS members to be politically similar. The majority of members believe in the same things, both worldly and spiritually. In general, LDS are independent by nature and self reliant by training; thus, they have a tendency to be conservative. Next, because of the historical relationship between the Church and various government bodies, members are not inclined to trust government or want government intrusion, which tends to lean members toward the Republican Party; however, this does not mean there aren’t any Democrats or Independents. All of these factors combined cause the members to vote in the same manner. In short, the LDS vote the same, because they have similar political ideologies, and it has noting to do with the Church endorsing any candidate or initiative.

Next, political candidates will curry and pander to any group they believe will get them elected. In Utah, they pander to the LDS. If the Catholics, Methodist, Atheists, or “Do Your Own Thingist” want political attention, then they need to belly-up to the table and meet with these candidates. In reality, it would be easy. No politician would dare refuse to meet with a group and risk the fallout from such a refusal.

In reference to your statement regarding PACs, the LDS Church has no political action committees in the legal sense. The Church does not, nor has it ever, funneled money to any candidate or political party. If a candidate meets with an LDS group or even the leadership of the Church and seeks input, such is no different than a candidate meeting with Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, the Pope, or Dalai Lama. In fact, this brings up an interesting point. Do you think political candidates waste any time with LDS members in such states as Alabama, Georgia, or Mississippi? No, they expend time with the various Protestant denominations, and before Mitt Romney came on the scene, they probably never even heard of the LDS Church.

Since you brought it up, let’s talk about the so-called separation of church and state. The current application has no Constitutional foundation. It is a legal construct of the courts, but even this ridiculous legal tangle does not preclude churches from expressing their concerns and desires to government.

Finally, until such time as the demographics of the state changes, there will be a significant LDS presence in the politics of Utah. To assume otherwise is absurd and akin to shoveling against the tide. If a group wants something in Utah, then they will have to deal with the LDS majority. They only way to do that is work out a political trade. If a change in the drinking laws is the objective, come up with something the LDS majority might want and offer a trade. That’s how politics in this country works.

[Aerorick]

The demographics of the state are changing a lot faster than many natives either notice or want to admit. The "tide" of the pervailing status quo of this state is slowing to a crawl. And as anyone who even pays half attention to reality knows, any changes in laws, liquor or otherwise, are driven by economic rather than the popular desires. That's how politics in this country works.

[inneedofabeer]

what is the closet liquor store outside of Utah anyone know coming from the SLC area

[Badland wonder]

You can enjoy an excellent Margarita with all the proper ingredients at Leftys Mexican food in Cedar City.

[insertusernamehere]

Has the recent change in the liquor laws had any effect on beer sold in grocery stores? Are they still the 3.2% alcohol beer sold in the grocery stores?

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by SergeantL

I also understand the resentment of non-Mormons living in Utah. Many feel disenfranchised by the social and political system in the state. I felt the same way when I lived in California, so I moved to Utah where my moral and political values are the norm. I can only suggest that anyone, who is not satisfied with Utah and its operations, consider relocating to a state that more closely represents their particular values. I know I am significantly more satisfied living in Utah than I ever was in California.

This makes the most sense to me.

Not all 50 states have to be exactly the same.

Personally, I think we need A LOT LESS control from the Federal government, and give more power to individual states, so we can continue to create the kind of country that has a lot different options available to all of its citizens.

If a majority Mormon state wants to have strong alcohol laws, so be it. If a more liberal state wants to have more liberal laws, so be it. If a more libertarian state wants theres as well, so be it.