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Thats what Wheelsups point was, and what I was saying.
People like you or annerk sit there and say "Get more training, get a higher degree, blah blah blah", but it doesnt matter how much training someone gets, the same exact crap jobs exist. The only difference is we will have PHD's flipping burgers for $8 an hour and 200k in debt.
Why would they go 200k in debt you ask? Because without the minimum requirement of a PHD, they would be completely unemployable.
Its the same reason why people are getting bachelors degrees to make $10-$15 an hour now, because most of the $10-$15 an hour jobs now REQUIRE a degree.
The people who used to work those jobs, are now either working unskilled labor jobs, are unemployed, or completely dropped out of the workforce.
Randomdude-- where exactly do you suggest people start? I am going to give you some insight into what has happened to me.
2005-- Hired at my former company, huge global financial services firm. Entry level even though I had 5 years work experience. I was hired at 13.94 an hour.
2006: Promoted at same company to 16.34 an hour with a 10% bonus.
2007: Promoted at same company to 20.38 an hour with a 15% bonus.
and so forth... I left that company in early 2012 making 36.07 an hour + 25% bonus, + 10% profit sharing bonus, + an average of additional 18k a year in performance incentive bonus payouts. Not to mention an additional 10k a year in tuition reimbursements and 5 weeks vacation.
My new company I took a slight paycut.. but I negotiated non-compensation perks as part of the deal so that i could focus on school. I don't plan on staying here for long-- I plan on moving out once I complete school-- because quite frankly the company can't afford to keep me. They know it, I know it. They are good with it because they are getting me for that time period to help reshape their operations. Me I get an easy job for the most part with no hassle so I can focus on school as well.
My point is that-- you stick your nose up to making less than 15.00 an hour with a college degree and you may find yourself missing out on opportunities due to myopic thinking. Even student loans realize this-- which is why they will offer graduated repayment options or even deferments until you progress more in your career.
Most college students are only able to do entry level because they ARE entry level.. but their career trajectory is far better potentially than someone without the education, etc.
Why exactly do these jobs almost always require a bachelors degree and several years of experience then?
You feel pretty safe with your MBA right now, but the day will come when the "accounting clerk" job requires an MBA.
Maybe it will. Maybe it wont.
What will more than likely happen is that there will not be a true need for an accounting clerk because technology provides more automation to do the functions that a low level clerk can do today.
(this would be the reason why you don't need as many low level admin assistants as you used to need).
My first job at my former company had a leader who came to do a roundtable talk with associates. People were so scared that their lower level clerk jobs would be outsourced.
He was point blank and honest and said.. your jobs may one day be replaced with better technology systems and/or outsourcing. The market demands that and pushes towards that. No one wants to hire some payroll clerk to manually key in a bunch of W4s.
His advice was that if your job is so far removed from understanding the full depth and breadth of what your organization does-- and is based primarily on small tasks that COULD be one day done by a computer or automation.. then you should be concerned. You should figure out how to understand the FULL end to end picture, where are the gaps, where are the pain points, what happens if a control point fails, etc etc etc.
It made sense to me and I made sure I didn't sit around just happily doing a lower level clerk type job. I started looking for gaps in process, I started figuring out how to automate things.. etc.
If all you are doing in your job is keying in numbers from paper or managing someone's calendar-- you should be worried about the longetivity of that position.
The Census report in March 2012 that bachelors degrees in the USA hit just over 30%... not a huge section of the population.
30% of the US has a bachelors degree, as of March 2012, only about 64% of the adult population was employed, and only like 5% of bachelor degree holders are unemployed.
So, assume the adult population is 200 million for a nice round number, 128 million of them have jobs.
60 million have bachelors degrees or higher, 3 million of them are unemployed. (We will have to ignore those who have bachelors degrees and arent actively seeking unemployment. This number is probably insiginificant any how).
So, out of of 128 million jobs, 44.5% of them are held by a person with a bachelors degree. Within a decade, over 50% of all jobs will be held by a person with a bachelors degree. Eventually, we will get to 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns
So yes.. it seems like the workforce is so much more skilled than before-- and it is.. if you count educational attainment, but I do think there needs to be a realistic review of what people are "educated" in. The person graduating in Biostatistics is probably doing much better than the Sociology major.
Does it really matter what they are educated in? Even an average person with a basic general college education is more prepared to do almost any non physical task then an average person with a HS degree or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheduns
But, with that said.. those with degrees have weathered the storm much better than those who haven't.
The reason for that is because that people with HS degrees or less are simply being pushed completely out of the workforce.
They would rather work at a grocery store where there are minimal jobs than be an actuary where the pay is high and the jobs are plenty.
Huh? First, no way that's true. Almost everyone would rather be an actuary, problem is the profession requires a certain level of intelligence and most people don't possess that level of intelligence. Second, no, the jobs are not plenty in the actuarial job market. The pay's high, I will grant you that.
What will more than likely happen is that there will not be a true need for an accounting clerk because technology provides more automation to do the functions that a low level clerk can do today.
(this would be the reason why you don't need as many low level admin assistants as you used to need).
My first job at my former company had a leader who came to do a roundtable talk with associates. People were so scared that their lower level clerk jobs would be outsourced.
Eliminating the job function would have a similiar but even worse end result, since it would also effectively create a scenario where all jobs required a high level of education, but simutaneously would reduce the overall workforce as well.
This would probably have the effect of quickly driving up the requirements of the remaining jobs, but not the income or skills actually required.
The truth of the matter is that people want the actuary jobs, but they don't have the skill required for one. Even at the basic level.
Not surprising really when we have a society that thinks everyone needs high self esteem and there are no losers. Where we value more sports teams than what the college ACTUALLY teaches.
It has nothing to do with that. It's simply the fact that the level of intelligence required to be an actuary can't really be taught for the most part.
Huh? First, no way that's true. Almost everyone would rather be an actuary, problem is the profession requires a certain level of intelligence and most people don't possess that level of intelligence. Second, no, the jobs are not plenty in the actuarial job market. The pay's high, I will grant you that.
Wallstreet is flooded with openings. They can't find enough. I have clients that are fighting over the few that are applying for these positions.
Thoughts? I am strapped for time so can't give you my detailed opinion, but in short I think it's total absurdity.
People want a paycheck, but do not want to work for it. The expectation is that work should be easy and fun and if it is not many people lose interest fast. Living in the Branson area, difficulties finding employees willing to work is a common problem. Many people (much higher than the national average, I would bet), are on unemployment and "disability", and receive government assistance rather than put in an honest days labor.
Wallstreet is flooded with openings. They can't find enough. I have clients that are fighting over the few that are applying for these positions.
All you have to do is pass the exams.
Wall Street <> actuaries. 90%+ of actuaries do not work on Wall Street or finance. They work in insurance, pensions, or consulting. How do I know? I'm an actuary who has passed all his exams.
"All you have to do is pass the exams". The exams are not easy, not everyone can pass even the first few, let alone all of them. I would say maybe 10%-15% of the population has the level and type of intelligence necessary to pass and do the job.
It is really that bad. Living with roommates ensures that you have limited privacy, subjects your stuff to theft or destruction, subjects your person to the actions of the roommates or their guest, and forces you to sacrifice autonomy in your own dwelling.
Maybe you just need a better quality of roommate.
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