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I have always been one of the most productive employees at every job Ive had. In most cases the only thing I got was more work.
Amen, brother. I have always been in the same boat. After a few jobs, and no raises, you start to realize this bunk about working hard = pay raises or other perks at work is just that, nonsense.
No, wait, I won a few gift certificates for being a productive employee but I would have preferred a merit raise or promotion with good pay.
My little rant but honestly...what ever happened to those who actually are willing to work hard for what they earn instead of being concerned about how much vacation time they get or the minimum amount of hours they need to put in.
I had an interview today for an engineer in our firm that's applying to work under me as an operations liaison, he's been here for about 8 years and he's a nice guy. Interview went pretty well, had a couple other candidates I was also going to interview but I thought this guy would be a pretty good fit for the job considering his skill set. Anyway towards the end of the interview, I ask him if he has any questions and he asks right off the bat "So how many more vacation hours would I receive and what's the minimum amount of hours I'd have to put it each week?". REALLY?!? WHY would you ask this for a job you don't even have, it puts a bad taste in my mouth. It sounds to me as if you really aren't committed to what you're doing but rather want to get more time off for a vacation and want to work the least hours possible.
Just had to vent.
Well, he's been with the company for some time so I would assume that an interview in this case could be more informal versus hiring an outside candidate. I think he could have been maybe less upfront on his question but I don't see how he has a bad work ethic. I would think that an engineering position would be one where you wouldn't want to work a bunch of hours. If you could get your work done on 40 hours or less, wouldn't you also ask the same question?
This forum makes me laugh. Whether it's unemployed or employed, I see many posts quick to use their personal experience to generalize to swathes of society on various immeasurable conceptual matters. It's be funny if it wasn't so sad. Why does everyone seem to feel the need to elevate their own personal performances or actions by overstretching the frequency or infrequency of others? Yuck. One seed does not a bad apple make. Not unless I see some charts to back it up.
Actually, I'll go ahead and make my own unsubstantiated generalizations. Many people who think they "work hard" to get a job or maintain a job aren't / haven't. In the first place, society very often has pathways to success that the majority take. These traditional pathways consist of spending hours acquiring knowledge, training, searching, fraternizing with a goal, and polishing skills to better market one-self. The point being, anyone adhering to such obvious roots of success is essentially merely doing average expected amounts of work. This goes for someone who spends hours studying, sends out hundreds-thousands of resumes, does hours of networking, has taken internships, and so forth and so on. Assuming all that pays off, this doesn't mean the effort was indeed hard work. Hard work should only be quantified as copious amounts above and beyond the already expected and obvious pathways. And in that regard, the majority ( I.E. average people) fall short. All in all then, a lot of people aren't working nearly as hard as they my like think. Heck, only about 1 out of every million has really worked hard!!! Hahah! I had fun spouting off at the mouth! I can see why so many people do it on these forums!
Last edited by criminaljusticegrad; 05-22-2012 at 05:37 PM..
You would have to understand the rivalry that has always existed in my line of work between engineers, foreman, machinists, and the like. Since I'm on a forum of mostly professional level workers, I am not going to argue because I will not win. You can research this on your own time if you would like however.
I will leave you with this though... In most places I have worked, when an engineer submits blue prints for production or prototype, machinists would put them in the drawer for a couple days. The reason? "Give it time, dimensional revisions will arrive just in time when the job is already complete"... I could give many personal examples of engineers not properly thinking things through, but we are all human and we all make mistakes.
I concur............worked railroad construction for 37 years........Good friend of mine was best I ever saw at laying new Switches...........Told me the very first thing he does is pull up the engineers survey stakes..........they are ALWAYS wrong........
He's already working in the company just in a different capacity. There are certain things I look for when conducting an interview for someone who will be working under me on a team and when he blatantly asked "What's the MINIMUM amount of hours I'd have to work per week?" ...I was stunned. It gives ME the feeling that you really don't WANT to work, why should I give you a position in which I feel you aren't going to contribute 100% too but rather are going to be watching the clock until it's time to leave. It's a salaried position and the hours are malleable depending on various factors but asking the minimum amount you'd have to work just doesn't sit well.
Nothing to do with being egotistic or having an attitude, I want the best people on my team, why would I hire someone who I don't feel is committed to the company?
then why weren't you up front and honest with him right then and there and put these questions to him THEN...........show your concern and openess..........don't talk behind his back........
A boss would never tell you that you are the most productive employee. However, the sheer volume of work compared to others is enough. Also, customers taking the time out the actually email you telling you are the most effective person in the spot they have ever dealt with, that helps too.
By the way, perceived value and actual value can be two grossly different things. Im sure my former employers...in about a month, are going to figure out how much I actually meant.
Are you kidding? Bosses let their most valuable workers know that they are important all the time. That is one of the ways you help retain top talent. If you never have heard that from a boss, then you definitely are not the best in your group.
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Part of my job at TWO of my jobs was reporting productivy of front line employees. So, yeah, I know exactly what goes on.
However, it seems I also struck a nerve.
You didn't strike a nerve, you are just oblivious to what goes on at anything but the front line.
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Yeah, I dont think you have done those calcs.
I know how much value in dollars every employee is adding on a monthly basis. That is part of being a manager.
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You've got to be kidding me right? Every retail service on the planet gives the lowest of low level employees the chance to "do fiscal harm".
At minimum they could simply cost 100's or thousands of dollars in customer business, at most, they could cause lawsuits. This is without destruction of equipment or merchandise.
Then they have poor management.
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Now, moving on, I used to work for a waste disposal firm, the requirements to drive a garbage truck were no more then having a CDL. That is fairly minimal requirement that can be achieved in a few weeks by any idiot off the street. That idiot was in charge of a couple hundred thousand dollar machine that would pulverize everything in its a wake, and in just 1 year I saw one run into a house, several power lines damages, a telephone pole knocked over, and a parked car practically destroyed.
I also used to work for a television company, placing commercial traffic. Just two people (neither much experienced or very old, and in probably the lowest job in the building), were responsible for placing millions of dollars of commercial traffic, as well obeying federal laws doing so. Fines for just one mistake were 10's of thousands of dollars. That huge responsibility was entrusted to people making less then 30k a year.
My wife works for a property managment company, and a "leasing agent" which is a basically a low end salesman, was fired for altering contracts having to do with the Fair Housing Act. Those alterations could expose the company to MILLIONS of dollars in lawsuits.
It doesnt remotely end there. Low end construction workers could put up thousands of dollars of faulty work before anyone ever caught it, low end warehouse workers could seriously injure or damage things with lifts and other equipment, even workers in fast food could start fires, break equipment, or seriously injure other coworkers.
You are speaking to situations where it seems management does not exist. Is there a risk? Obviously, but those situations are vastly minimized by good management.
Also, why do you think companies budget for writedowns and writeoffs?
Believe it or not, people do plan for those events.
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Originally Posted by BigDGeek
Yeah. I have a job that pays almost $100k a year.
You were saying?
I didn't realize making over $100k means you know how to hire people? Anyone who has worked in a professional environment and is over 40 years old makes over $100k.
Maybe it is just in the functions I have been a part of, but in corporate IT/Finance/Marketing, this is true. I don't have experience in anything else, so I can only talk to what I know.
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WHY would you ask this for a job you don't even have, it puts a bad taste in my mouth. It sounds to me as if you really aren't committed to what you're doing but rather want to get more time off for a vacation and want to work the least hours possible. 
Many people who think they "work hard" to get a job or maintain a job aren't / haven't. In the first place, society very often has pathways to success that the majority take. These traditional pathways consist of spending hours acquiring knowledge, training, searching, fraternizing with a goal, and polishing skills to better market one-self. The point being, anyone adhering to such obvious roots of success is essentially merely doing average expected amounts of work. This goes for someone who spends hours studying, sends out hundreds-thousands of resumes, does hours of networking, has taken internships, and so forth and so on. Assuming all that pays off, this doesn't mean the effort was indeed hard work. Hard work should only be quantified as copious amounts above and beyond the already expected and obvious pathways. And in that regard, the majority ( I.E. average people) fall short. All in all then, a lot of people aren't working nearly as hard as they my like think. Heck, only about 1 out of every million has really worked hard!!! Hahah! I had fun spouting off at the mouth! I can see why so many people do it on these forums!
